Friedman: LTIR may be addressed in next CBA

[gvitaly]

A bit of a different solution: I would roll the amount a team exceeds the cap in the playoffs, based on playoff days x Exceeded Caphit / 186(regular season length), to the next season like you do with bonuses.

That, or I would have the maximum injury replacement player have a $3M caphit. That way you still get cap relief, but can't abuse LTIR.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I would keep the rules the same until McDavid leaves the Oilers.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by butterfly

There is a point to have it in the regular season. If you can make the playoffs without your full team, great.

What are they doing wrong? The salary cap is inapplicable in the playoffs. After years of seeing this, no one else wanted Hertl and Hanifin? Tough luck for them.

A couple teams figured it out and they’re winning, and most teams didn’t and they’re losing. Resourceful thinking wins.

I think it is a means to protect teams from a geographical bias. It is no secret that players would prefer to play in Florida, Texas, Nevada and New York.

It is also no secret that 80% of players are playing through injuries that could technically qualify them for LTIR

It is a damaging loophole that doesn't keep in line with the spirit of the salary cap and league parity.

[Macindoc]

Regardless of any other changes, players who are on LTIR when traded should not be eligible for the playoffs unless they return in the regular season. This totally defeats the purpose of LTIR, which is to allow teams to replace injured players while remaining cap compliant.

It still blows my mind that Treliving traded a 1st to get rid of a clearly injured Monahan instead of just putting him on LTIR until he was fully healed. This team would look so much different if that trade wasn’t made.

[Sylvanfan]

I don't think complicating the money is the answer. Really if you make it so if a player was on LTIR, they must start the playoffs on IR and you can't activate them until after the first 7 days from which your series started has elapsed. 4 games in the first round likely is enough to scare any team from trying to cheat.

[TheIronMaiden]

I think that a simple solution is that in the playoffs, a team needs to be cap compliant. When a players is cleared from an injury, in order to return players from the roster must be made ineligible to play for the remainder of the playoffs.

There would not be an punishment, other than forcing roster players to finish their season early and have to watch from the sideline. This would also remove player incentive to want to participate in cap circumvention.

[PepsiFree]

The simplest solution is just to declare that your total on-ice salary, prorated to an 82 game season, can’t exceed the cap in any individual game, playoff or otherwise.

EDIT: similar to IronMaiden above, but make it so that if a team like Vegas wants to pick up an extra 6M player to cover for a 6M player on LTIR and that LTIR player returns in the playoffs, then they have the option of playing either of them throughout the playoffs, but wouldn’t be able to play both in one game (unless they scratch 6M elsewhere).

[ThisIsAnOutrage]

I think the answer is to fix it the other way. Make it so that every team receives the same accrues cap space as the team with the most. It's not perfect, but at least that way the whole league winds up with the same space to bid on pricey rentals. Really lowers incentive to abuse the system.

[CSharp]

I'll be surprised to see it changed and here is the reason why. You really haven't seen any of the Canadian teams do it. It's been mainly teams from the US that are doing this because it's a money maker for these teams and it brings out huge news and drives up a frenzy in places where the NHL wants to make inroads to the sports market. Canadian teams don't need to do it because fans are gonna be there for their team no matter what. It's all about money and it goes round and round. Just wait until the Oilers do it and the league will make a ruling out of it and the ownerships in those not-so-NHL areas will threaten to pull out and sell their teams.

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

I would keep the rules the same until McDavid leaves the Oilers.

From the article, the current CBA expires September of 2026. McDavid's contract expires in June of 2026.

[CSharp]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

I think that a simple solution is that in the playoffs, a team needs to be cap compliant. When a players is cleared from an injury, in order to return players from the roster must be made ineligible to play for the remainder of the playoffs.

There would not be an punishment, other than forcing roster players to finish their season early and have to watch from the sideline. This would also remove player incentive to want to participate in cap circumvention.

Will this allow the player to have his name on the Cup even if he'll be sidelined for the rest of the playoffs? Isn't players on a winning team always have their name put on the Cup even if that player is sidelined through the whole playoffs as long as that player was on the roster before the end of the regular season? I think Robin Regehr (with the Kings) is one such a scenario that I can recall.

To really fix this, you'd want to close all loopholes. The best way is to ensure the active roster iced in the post-season is the same as that of the regular season.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by transplant99

But you cant add players....unless your good ones (higher paid anyhow) are injured. That's not a good thing for any team.

Vegas would way rather have Stone and Martinez and Carrierre playing right now than an injured Hertl that wont be available for a few weeks.

They are not exactly a lock for the playoffs yet. 7 out of their last 20 available points.

nm, replied to the wrong post

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

The simplest solution is just to declare that your total on-ice salary, prorated to an 82 game season, can’t exceed the cap in any individual game, playoff or otherwise.

EDIT: similar to IronMaiden above, but make it so that if a team like Vegas wants to pick up an extra 6M player to cover for a 6M player on LTIR and that LTIR player returns in the playoffs, then they have the option of playing either of them throughout the playoffs, but wouldn’t be able to play both in one game (unless they scratch 6M elsewhere).

This is the solution IMO.

And it's funny if you look at Vegas...

Eichel, Stone, Hertl, Karlsson, Marchessault, Barbashev, Roy, Mantha, Stephenson, Howden, Amadio, Cotter = $53.7M

Pietrangelo, Theodore, McNabb, Whitecloud, Hague, Hanifin = $23.25M

Hill, Thompson: $5.7M

Total= $83.15M

For all the noise about Vegas cheating their best dressed roster come playoff time actually is still under the Salary Cap. And it was the same thing last year.

It allows them to build depth and squeeze these guys in, but it's easy to build a 20 man roster with most of their best players that is still below the cap of $83.5M.

You can't dress Carrier / Kolesar and have to dress Cotter, and Martinez can't play (not sure he would anyways with those other 6), but not like they have to make any really tough decisions.

And since they are in LTIR all season long most of the time they can't accrue cap space like another team can, any team can be over the cap in the playoffs if they use their cap accrual space wisely...not just LTIR teams.

[edslunch]

full cap compliance in the playoffs would kill the rental market, which would not be a good thing. Instead, just force the team to remove salary equal to or greater than the amount LTIR allowed them to exceed the dap. In other words, you can have your LTIR player or the player(s) that replaced them, not both.

Speaking of LTIR, did they ever fix that issue that forced the Flames to ice only 15 players at the end of the season? Man, looking back the Flames have more than their share of bad looks over the years.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by butterfly

And Las Vegas figured out that the rest of the league overrates durable players. So now we cry because we didn’t do it first.

If they change the rules to replicate the regular season, they won’t do it anymore.

"let's load up on injury prone players so we can use the LTIR hack" said no team ever. Do you want to rely on a bunch of injury prone players in the playoffs when the play is much harder?

[robertsfanatic]

Originally Posted by CSharp

I'll be surprised to see it changed and here is the reason why. You really haven't seen any of the Canadian teams do it. It's been mainly teams from the US that are doing this because it's a money maker for these teams and it brings out huge news and drives up a frenzy in places where the NHL wants to make inroads to the sports market. Canadian teams don't need to do it because fans are gonna be there for their team no matter what. It's all about money and it goes round and round. Just wait until the Oilers do it and the league will make a ruling out of it and the ownerships in those not-so-NHL areas will threaten to pull out and sell their teams.

Toronto has done it (albeit not to the LV extreme) over the years also...they just have nothing to show for it.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

This is the solution IMO.

And it's funny if you look at Vegas...

Eichel, Stone, Hertl, Karlsson, Marchessault, Barbashev, Roy, Mantha, Stephenson, Howden, Amadio, Cotter = $53.7M

Pietrangelo, Theodore, McNabb, Whitecloud, Hague, Hanifin = $23.25M

Hill, Thompson: $5.7M

Total= $83.15M

For all the noise about Vegas cheating their best dressed roster come playoff time actually is still under the Salary Cap. And it was the same thing last year.

It allows them to build depth and squeeze these guys in, but it's easy to build a 20 man roster with most of their best players that is still below the cap of $83.5M.

You can't dress Carrier / Kolesar and have to dress Cotter, and Martinez can't play (not sure he would anyways with those other 6), but not like they have to make any really tough decisions.

And since they are in LTIR all season long most of the time they can't accrue cap space like another team can, any team can be over the cap in the playoffs if they use their cap accrual space wisely...not just LTIR teams.

On top of that (and really good points about Vegas btw) I think it makes the most sense as a solution because it’s the least disruptive. It allows the rule to function as intended while eliminating any edge cases that would really give teams an unfair advantage.

One thing people don’t seem to really recognize is how this process also helps the teams moving these guys get more value for them. That’s why I especially disagree with the idea of eliminating retention. For a team like Calgary trying to move Hanifin, the return starts to look a lot worse if you’re saying that playoff teams near the cap or into their LTIR usage can’t even make an offer or wouldn’t be able to play the player in the playoffs if they did.

[CSharp]

I'm not really sure what's the point of winning anything is when you have to cheat to win. Yes, this is considered cheating similar to athletes taking steroids to have advantages over other opponents. I understand it's the glory and money that comes with it but the moral value of cheating is always wrong. If this is morally right and socially acceptable, then, have it a free for all, do what you want in all sports.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

The simplest solution is just to declare that your total on-ice salary, prorated to an 82 game season, can’t exceed the cap in any individual game, playoff or otherwise.

EDIT: similar to IronMaiden above, but make it so that if a team like Vegas wants to pick up an extra 6M player to cover for a 6M player on LTIR and that LTIR player returns in the playoffs, then they have the option of playing either of them throughout the playoffs, but wouldn’t be able to play both in one game (unless they scratch 6M elsewhere).

Of course, that's not what some teams accused of manipulation did. With Kucherov out, for example, TB for example signed a good middle pairing D and gave nice extentions to existing players.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Of course, that's not what some teams accused of manipulation did. With Kucherov out, for example, TB for example signed a good middle pairing D and gave nice extentions to existing players.

…which is the reason you tweak the rule as I described.