[Trade] Hanifin (salary retained) to Vegas for Miromanov + 2026 1st + cond 3rd

[RedHawk12]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Treliving got raked over the coals for making that trade, starting about five minutes after it happened.

Ok, I think you're really mixing up your arguments.

You said rentals don't generate significant returns.

Someone said Giroux for 1st and Tippett is significant.

You said Tippett is not a prospect of importance because he's 23, so not significant.

I said Tippett is worth quite a bit because he's young and can pop, therefore he has significant value.

You said Lazar was young and could pop, but he has no value.

I said Lazar got Ottawa a 2nd, which is significant value.

Now you're saying we overpaid for Lazar, so I think you agree that players like that can have significant value, even at the expense of other teams misjudging players.

So I think we are on the same page in terms of young former 1st rounders with potential to pop do hold significant value, even if they in fact do bust in the end.

So at the time of trade, Giroux returned quite a significant package based on value (of picks and of players).

Either way, I don't disagree with you that high end prospects don't usually get traded for rentals, so we'll leave it at that.

I do think based on returns for other rentals, we should have got more for Hanifin, by the fact that Hanifin is way better than other rentals.

Rentals don't return a lot every time, but most years players worse than Hanifin return more than what we got.

[driveway]

People mad at this overvaluing Flames players. We just got a 1st, a 2nd, and a roster player for a guy whose career equivalent is Jaroslav Spacek. 40 points once. 12 goals never.

[GullFoss]

Random thoughts:

1) my biggest fear before the season started was that Conroy would sign Hanifin and Lindholm to extensions rather than face the music. It was time for a rebuild and Conroy was intellectually honest enough to make the call. That's the most important thing.

2) The cornerstone players from a rebuild will come from the flames own picks. The second most important thing is sucking enough to get your own picks in high draft position. Conroy accomplishes that too by trading away half our defensive corps. Hopefully Markstrom is next and they can do it prior to the deadline.

3) it's crazy how Huby sucking so much basically forced the franchise into a rebuild 1 season after winning the division. Will go down as the worst contract signed in flames history. Also crazy to see that even with Kadri playing better and Markstrom playing vezina calibre goalie...team is not competitive and won't be for seasons.

4) I wouldn't be surprised to see Kadri traded in the off-season. His contract has positive value and he'd be a great piece for a contending team

5) the return was fine. The addition of a B-level prospect does not matter in the grand scheme of a 5-year rebuild.

[dino7c]

I'm gonna go ahead an say the pick is likely better than a late 24 1st and almost certainly not worse. In terms of position and and quality of draft year.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by RedHawk12

Ok, I think you're really mixing up your arguments.

You said rentals don't generate significant returns.

No, I was addressing the idea that rentals are traded for top prospects.

Someone said Giroux for 1st and Tippett is significant.

You said Tippett is not a prospect of importance because he's 23, so not significant.

I said Tippett was not a top prospect because he was 23, had already been in the league for years and done basically nothing.

I said Tippett is worth quite a bit because he's young and can pop, therefore he has significant value.

You said Lazar was young and could pop, but he has no value.

I never said that. I said he wasn't a top prospect at that age, and if he wasn't, then neither was Tippett in similar circumstances.

I said Lazar got Ottawa a 2nd, which is significant value.

Yes, and everyone and his dog agreed that was an overpayment, so it would be foolish to expect that. It certainly didn't make Lazar a top prospect, did it?

Now you're saying we overpaid for Lazar, so I think you agree that players like that can have significant value, even at the expense of other teams misjudging players.

Economists call that ‘greater fool theory’. If you value your own assets based on what an idiot might pay for them, then you yourself are probably the idiot.

Either way, I don't disagree with you that high end prospects don't usually get traded for rentals, so we'll leave it at that.

That's fair.

I do think based on returns for other rentals, we should have got more for Hanifin, by the fact that Hanifin is way better than other rentals.

Rentals don't return a lot every time, but most years players worse than Hanifin return more than what we got.

As Jiri points out, his value was damaged because the teams that wanted him most didn't have 1st-round picks for years to come. Vegas didn't have to make a great offer to beat the two Florida teams.

[Angelino]

Originally Posted by JurassicTunga12

give me that Markstrom deal...

Be careful what you wish for…..

We all might be on suicide watch if the return is as disappointing as the Hanifin trade.

[Mephisto]

Originally Posted by Angelino

Be careful what you wish for…..

We all might be on suicide watch if the return is as disappointing as the Hanifin trade.

So could we live with Holtz and a 3rd rd pick for Markstrom?

[dino7c]

Vegas should trade their 2025 first to Calgary in another deal

[N-E-B]

This is pretty much exactly what I thought they’d get. Given what’s been reported the last few weeks I’d say anyone who expected any more than this was fooling themselves.

The reality is that the Flames were dealing from a position of weakness here. Other teams aren’t stupid. They know that. All things considered this is a fine return for a player that was leaving no matter what.

[stemit14]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Vegas should trade their 2025 first to Calgary in another deal

That would funny and crazy. But Vegas needs wingers and the flames don’t really have one that would return a first round pick at this point. At least not one that they would want to trade (Zary). Maybe Coleman would if the flames retained 50% of his salary.

[Ferarri]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

Random thoughts:

1) my biggest fear before the season started was that Conroy would sign Hanifin and Lindholm to extensions rather than face the music. It was time for a rebuild and Conroy was intellectually honest enough to make the call. That's the most important thing.

2) The cornerstone players from a rebuild will come from the flames own picks. The second most important thing is sucking enough to get your own picks in high draft position. Conroy accomplishes that too by trading away half our defensive corps. Hopefully Markstrom is next and they can do it prior to the deadline.

3) it's crazy how Huby sucking so much basically forced the franchise into a rebuild 1 season after winning the division. Will go down as the worst contract signed in flames history. Also crazy to see that even with Kadri playing better and Markstrom playing vezina calibre goalie...team is not competitive and won't be for seasons.

4) I wouldn't be surprised to see Kadri traded in the off-season. His contract has positive value and he'd be a great piece for a contending team

5) the return was fine. The addition of a B-level prospect does not matter in the grand scheme of a 5-year rebuild.

Problem is though did he really make the call? Offers were extended to both Lindholm and Hanafin. I believe they soured on Lindholm with his poor play, however seems like the players forced the organization to move on. Won’t complain with where we at right now as we are embracing a rebuild but at times feels like it was more situational than strategic.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Ferarri

Problem is though did he really make the call? Offers were extended to both Lindholm and Hanafin. I believe they soured on Lindholm with his poor play, however seems like the players forced the organization to move on. Won’t complain with where we at right now as we are embracing a rebuild but at times feels like it was more situational than strategic.

They certainly made the call on Lindholm "they know what I want"

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

I'm good with the trade.

We got a 25 or 26 1st rounder and I prefer that over another 24 pick. We have enough 24 first rounder picks and 25/26 are supposedly shaping up to be better drafts.

We have a good shot at another second rounder.

The scouting staff gets the benefit of the doubt from me given their recent performance. So I'm happy to watch what we can do with Miromanov (doo dooooo do do do).

Also, I'll be really curious to see if Brisson has another surprise in store. Living in Vegas is not the same as Tampa/Miami. Wouldn't shock me if Noah doesn't extend just yet... what's the rush?

[DeluxeMoustache]

My random thought is wondering what’s up with Philly

They are missing a goalie due to the sexual assault charges. They retained salary on this deal. Calgary has three nhl ready goalies if, as most believe, Wolf is ready

[RedHawk12]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

No, I was addressing the idea that rentals are traded for top prospects.

Ok, I agree with you there. I think some people are saying we didn't get enough value back for Hanifin, and if your counter to that is teams rarely get top prospect for rentals, you're kind of missing the mark, no?

I mean yes top prospects don't get traded often for rentals, but at the very least there could be a 1st and multiple 2nds? Maybe no conditions? Maybe a slightly better prospect than Miromanov?

[Tbull8]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

My random thought is wondering what’s up with Philly

They are missing a goalie due to the sexual assault charges. They retained salary on this deal. Calgary has three nhl ready goalies if, as most believe, Wolf is ready

From the chatter on here, sounds like they have interest in Vladar. Conroy probably has them on hold until New Jersey says no to markstrom right now. If that happens then Vlad to Philly. Otherwise Marky to NJ and flames keep Vlad

[jg13]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

My random thought is wondering what’s up with Philly

They are missing a goalie due to the sexual assault charges. They retained salary on this deal. Calgary has three nhl ready goalies if, as most believe, Wolf is ready

From earlier today

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Flyers still interested in Vladar but nothing is happening there until the Markstrom fiasco is straightened out. If Markstrom stays I would bet on Vladar being a Flyer.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by RedHawk12

Ok, I agree with you there. I think some people are saying we didn't get enough value back for Hanifin, and if your counter to that is teams rarely get top prospect for rentals, you're kind of missing the mark, no?

I mean yes top prospects don't get traded often for rentals, but at the very least there could be a 1st and multiple 2nds? Maybe no conditions? Maybe a slightly better prospect than Miromanov?

The conditions on the first favor the Flames if it rolls over anyway. If it were this years pick its guaranteed late

They could get 11-32 next season or 1-32 in 26. Guaranteed 2nd would be nice but it might work out anyway

[CASe333]

2024- LV 1 round - <20
2025- LV 1 - <10
2026- LV 1 - unprotected

I keep reading how the "conditional first" is such a deal breaker and I keep wondering if those posters understand how the conditions are actually quite in flames favour the longer the 1rst gets booted.

[browna]

I'd say Vladar is a candidate to be dealt.
Outside shot for Mangipane.
Does someone want Rooney or Hunt for depth? Probably not. Greer is back in a few weeks.

And again, this is an opportunity for the Flames to acquire as well if the situation presents itself if some team gets caught up in trade deadline madness and suddenly has to shed a decent, non-expiring player with a so so contract for a year or two.

Or, less desirable but, take on an expiring contract with a sweetener.