[Trade] Flyers trade Sean Walker to Colorado for Ryan Johansen + a 1st

[AC]

Originally Posted by cannon7

Man Flames fans will really twist themselves in knots to justify an obviously bad deal.

Grushnikov is not worth a first round pick no matter how you try to spin it. He was a surprise pick in the second round the year he was drafted. He plays very similar minutes to Kuznetsov in the AHL and puts up very similar numbers. Despite what some dude says, the comparison is apt.

But you're basing your argument on some rando on The Athletic...? Not much different than looking at CP's prospect rankings from this summer where we collectively voted Pospisil our 21st best prospect and dismissing him entirely.

I'd rather trust that both Calgary and Dallas management valued Grushnikov.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by AC

But you're basing your argument on some rando on The Athletic...? Not much different than looking at CP's prospect rankings from this summer where we collectively voted Pospisil our 21st best prospect and dismissing him entirely.

I'd rather trust that both Calgary and Dallas management valued Grushnikov.

The Athletic already had to eat crow (and did) on the Toffoli trade.

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by RedHot25

For what it's worth, that Jason guy that used to be scouting director of Panthers and other teams, laughed at this point when brought up on a fan 960 interview a week or so ago. He said grushnikov was miles ahead of Kuznetsov and all other similar wrangler defense. Not even in the same league to be nice about it. So I'm not sure your comparison is... Apt, at all

So one dude says that one dude is better than the entire d corps of the best team in the AHL? Yeah, calling bull#### here.

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by AC

But you're basing your argument on some rando on The Athletic...? Not much different than looking at CP's prospect rankings from this summer where we collectively voted Pospisil our 21st best prospect and dismissing him entirely.

I'd rather trust that both Calgary and Dallas management valued Grushnikov.

Go see my previous posts about Pospisil. I definitely don't fit in the "CP says..." crowd.

[bax]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Not bought out I think. Traded with 50% retention. Nashville got Alex Galchenyuk's signing rights "hooray". I don't think he signed a new deal with the Avs - he's on year 7 of his 8 year contract making $8M from various sources.

You’re right. I got him mixed up with Duchene.

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Even before Johansson was tied to it the Tanev return was still better. You are getting an established defensive D prospect that was taken in the 2nd round and a 2nd that in this draft is the same lottery ticket as a late 1st. The player you get in this draft in the late 1st has about the same odds of panning out as a guy you take in the late 2nd.

The only team that saw Grushnikov as a second round pick was the Dallas Stars. Check out rankings around that time. And while the Stars' track record is better than most, they do get it wrong.

So I don't agree that a guy that was a surprise second round pick in 2021 is worth the same as a late first round pick in 2024 or 2025. Especially considering his modest numbers in the AHL since being drafted.

Again, don't think he's a terrible prospect, just don't like the value Conroy is getting.

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by cannon7

The only team that saw Grushnikov as a second round pick was the Dallas Stars. Check out rankings around that time. And while the Stars' track record is better than most, they do get it wrong.

So I don't agree that a guy that was a surprise second round pick in 2021 is worth the same as a late first round pick in 2024 or 2025. Especially considering his modest numbers in the AHL since being drafted.

Again, don't think he's a terrible prospect, just don't like the value Conroy is getting.

Same with Stankoven, and where they also valued all of their other finds. Throwing shade at Dallas and their drafting is an empty argument.

[HighLifeMan]

Originally Posted by cannon7

The only team that saw Grushnikov as a second round pick was the Dallas Stars. Check out rankings around that time. And while the Stars' track record is better than most, they do get it wrong.

So I don't agree that a guy that was a surprise second round pick in 2021 is worth the same as a late first round pick in 2024 or 2025. Especially considering his modest numbers in the AHL since being drafted.

Again, don't think he's a terrible prospect, just don't like the value Conroy is getting.

Grushnikov was ranked 60 by Mackenzie. That's a second.
Grushnikov was ranked 58 by Eliteprospects. That's a second.
Grushinikov was ranked 49 by FCHockey. That's a second.

You are the one spinning here. If anything this trade further illustrates how well Conroy did. No team was taking Johansen for anything less than a 2nd as compensation, and Philly even threw in a 5th as well.

[RedHawk12]

Originally Posted by MrMike

Same with Stankoven, and where they also valued all of their other finds. Throwing shade at Dallas and their drafting is an empty argument.

Even the teams who are best at drafting miss sometimes.

Grushnikov is a good prospect, but Conroy got a meh return for Tanev. Not bad, not great. It's ok to acknowledge that the trade wasn't the most ideal.

It's also ok to prefer a 1st over Grushnikov and a 2nd. Clearly some here prefer the 1st and others prefer Grushnikov and a 2nd. Time will tell which turns out better.

[Tacoman]

Originally Posted by cannon7

The only team that saw Grushnikov as a second round pick was the Dallas Stars. Check out rankings around that time. And while the Stars' track record is better than most, they do get it wrong.

So I don't agree that a guy that was a surprise second round pick in 2021 is worth the same as a late first round pick in 2024 or 2025. Especially considering his modest numbers in the AHL since being drafted.

Again, don't think he's a terrible prospect, just don't like the value Conroy is getting.

But the argument has never been is Grushnikov equal to a first. The argument has been is a second rounder AND Grushnikov better than a late first. Add to that the fact that all of the firsts apparently came with cap dumps and it's easty to see why Conny chose that deal.

[Geeoff]

another more disturbing implication is that perhaps the Flames did not want Johansen's $4m hit on the books because they are going to try and be competitive next season

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by RedHawk12

Even the teams who are best at drafting miss sometimes.

Grushnikov is a good prospect, but Conroy got a meh return for Tanev. Not bad, not great. It's ok to acknowledge that the trade wasn't the most ideal.

It's also ok to prefer a 1st over Grushnikov and a 2nd. Clearly some here prefer the 1st and others prefer Grushnikov and a 2nd. Time will tell which turns out better.

Not really since we don't know who the Flames would have drafted with the first

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by HighLifeMan

Grushnikov was ranked 60 by Mackenzie. That's a second.
Grushnikov was ranked 58 by Eliteprospects. That's a second.
Grushinikov was ranked 49 by FCHockey. That's a second.

You are the one spinning here. If anything this trade further illustrates how well Conroy did. No team was taking Johansen for anything less than a 2nd as compensation, and Philly even threw in a 5th as well.

Mackenzie actually ranked him 68th, which by my math is not a second?

Ranked #102 by McKeen's Hockey. Is that a second?

[RedHawk12]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Not really since we don't know who the Flames would have drafted with the first

It's comparing who the Flames might have drafted with the 1st.

Don't tell me you don't think about what ifs.

[RedHot25]

Originally Posted by cannon7

So one dude says that one dude is better than the entire d corps of the best team in the AHL? Yeah, calling bull#### here.

Ok, dude, I'm just telling you what one dude, who was a scout with the predators for 5 years, then Director of Amateur Scouting for 9 years with the Panthers, said in regard to your point about Kuznetsov and similar defenseman in the Wranglers.

[HighLifeMan]

Originally Posted by cannon7

Mackenzie actually ranked him 68th, which by my math is not a second?

Ranked #102 by McKeen's Hockey. Is that a second?

https://www.tsn.ca/bob-mckenzie-s-20...ings-1.1669727

60.

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by RedHot25

Ok, dude, I'm just telling you what one dude, who was a scout with the predators for 5 years, then Director of Amateur Scouting for 9 years with the Panthers, said in regard to your point about Kuznetsov and similar defenseman in the Wranglers.

And I'm telling you that's bull####. Plenty of garbage scouts out there. Take Steve Pleau for example.

[RedHot25]

Originally Posted by cannon7

And I'm telling you that's bull####. Plenty of garbage scouts out there. Take Steve Pleau for example.

Ok. Can we send a gift subscription to the Athletic to Conroy then?

[Jiggy]

Originally Posted by RedHot25

Ok. Can we send a gift subscription to the Athletic to Conroy then?

Might as well draft based off The Athletic rankings as well.

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by cannon7

And I'm telling you that's bull####. Plenty of garbage scouts out there. Take Steve Pleau for example.

He was drafted with a second by one of the top 3 drafting teams in the past 6 years. I don't care who has a blog or does a write up, if thats what he went for that is what he was worth by a team who has a track record of drafting. So he is worth a second and Calgary saw that value. Now you are just putting in your own opinion.