[Rumour] Lightning have contract extension in place for Hanifin if trade can be completed

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by browna

My guess is there are 10-15 teams that would and could take him as a rental.

3-5 teams that would be able to and fully interested in re signing.

Flames can pay the lip service to teams wanting to extend him or where he says he wants to go as a rentsl, but don't need any permission to send him to any one of the teams not on his list, for whatever best return Conroy has come 36 hours from now.

Just for fun, here is a quick first pass at the teams:

X - Anaheim Ducks - Zero motivation to give up picks for rental
X - Arizona Coyotes - Zero motivation to give up picks for rental
Y - Boston Bruins - Possible
X - Buffalo Sabres - Zero motivation to give up picks for rental
X - Calgary Flames - he's here already
Y - Carolina Hurricanes - Possible
X - Chicago Blackhawks - Zero motivation to give up picks for rental
X - Colorado Avalanche - Strong back end and no reason to give up picks
X - Columbus Blue Jackets - Zero motivation to give up picks for rental
X - Dallas Stars - They just filled their defenseman need
Y - Detroit Red Wings - Possible
X - Edmonton Oilers - Canada NTC/NMC
Y - Florida Panthers - Possible
Y - Los Angeles Kings - Possible
X - Minnesota Wild - Zero motivation to give up picks for rental
X - Montreal Canadiens - Canada NTC/NMC
X - Nashville Predators - Not in their strategy; they're more apt to collect a pick
Y - New Jersey Devils - Possible
Y - New York Islanders - Maybe. Still in sight of playoffs
Y - New York Rangers - Possible
X - Ottawa Senators - Canada NTC/NMC
Y - Philadelphia Flyers - Possible
Y - Pittsburgh Penguins - Possible
X - San Jose Sharks - Zero motivation to give up picks
Y - St. Louis Blues - Possible
X - Seattle - Possible
Y - Tampa Bay Lightning - Possible
X - Toronto Maple Leafs - Canada NTC/NMC
X - Vancouver Canucks - Canada NTC/NMC
Y - Vegas Golden Knights - Possible
Y - Washington Capitals - Possible
X - Winnipeg Jets - Canada NTC/NMC


So if I just filter the Yes/Possible teams and dig one level further:

Y - Boston Bruins - Possible but given prospect situation, little motivation to give up picks

Y - Carolina Hurricanes - Possible

X - Detroit Red Wings - Unlikely to give up picks at this stage of development; sold last year.

Y - Florida Panthers - Possible

Y - Los Angeles Kings - Possible; I'd argue their need is elsewhere.

Y - New Jersey Devils - Possible

X - New York Islanders - Possible but unlikely given assets lost in Horvat trade

X - New York Rangers - Possible but unlikely given strength of roster

X - Philadelphia Flyers - Unlikely to give up picks at this stage of development

X - Pittsburgh Penguins - No reason to give up picks given where they are

X - St. Louis Blues - No reason to give up picks given where they are

X - Seattle - No reason to give up picks; appear to be sellers

Y - Tampa Bay Lightning - Possible

Y - Vegas Golden Knights - Possible

X - Washington Capitals - No reason to give up picks given where they are


Boils down to 7 teams that may have some motivation from my point of view, with 2 of those (Florida, Tampa) being tied to extension (given rumours) and 5 of them as rentals (Boston, Carolina, LA, NJ, Vegas).

I think the market is realistically a lot slimmer than 10-15 teams. It's not an easy task for Conroy imo.


Edit: I should probably move Detroit over to the 'possible' camp. But I think the general message stands.

[Flame On]

At this point with the limitations he's imposed (no judgement) are they at the stage where they get as much selling to a team as a rental, over a team that may be able to re-sign him on the outset? In other words he's driven down his own asset price and the teams he wants aren't necessarily flush with picks etc. So just trade him as a rental and let it be known you're willing to do that, far and wide.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Flame On

At this point with the limitations he's imposed (no judgement) are they at the stage where they get as much selling to a team as a rental, over a team that may be able to re-sign him on the outset? In other words he's driven down his own asset price and the teams he wants aren't necessarily flush with picks etc. So just trade him as a rental and let it be known you're willing to do that, far and wide.

Agree completely with this. Also might make Hanifins camp loosen the reigns a bit or add another long term team to the mix at least to try and build some kind of leverage.

[PepsiFree]

Why would anyone think the Flames aren’t willing to trade Hanifin as a rental?

They don’t care. They want the best return. Rental, sign and trade, doesn’t matter.

[memphusk]

I would be happier if I was in Tampa to give him 7 years instead of 8 anyways.

[Goriders]

The way I look at it, if reports are true and Hanifin’s camp has backed the Flames into a corner, I wouldn’t do him any favours.

[Wolfman]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Why would anyone think the Flames aren’t willing to trade Hanifin as a rental?

They don’t care. They want the best return. Rental, sign and trade, doesn’t matter.

Nobody is suggesting they aren't. There's a lot of smoke around Brisson and Hanifin having a preferred destination. That's what people are talking about.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

This is really starting to remind me of the Iginla situation. If I remember correctly he only wanted to go to Pittsburgh?

The difference is Iggy had a full no move clause, so he could only be traded if he agreed to it and he was only willing to agree to go to Pittsburgh.

Hanifin only has an 8 team no trade clause, so he can only prevent a trade to those 8 teams. He can say he doesn't want to be traded as a rental, but if that's the best deal Conroy can get, it doesn't really matter what he wants.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Wolfman

Nobody is suggesting they aren't. There's a lot of smoke around Brisson and Hanifin having a preferred destination. That's what people are talking about.

People are literally talking about the Flames needing to be willing to and let it be know that they’ll trade him for a rental.

I’m not sure there’s “smoke” around Hanifin having a preferred destination, it’s fact. That’s part of the package with a sign and trade, they need to want to sign there.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Wolfman

Nobody is suggesting they aren't. There's a lot of smoke around Brisson and Hanifin having a preferred destination. That's what people are talking about.

Why is that an issue?

[Scroopy Noopers]

Yeah, I don’t understand the problem really. We’ve gone from our ideal scenario - trading a UFA d with no (edit: minimal) trade protection (awesome, love the direction!)… to that UFA maybe agreeing to a sign and trade (even better value, yay!)… then back to the first scenario… which is great. Oh well.


Really, it would be the lightning who’d be dumb to not close this with the best offer.

[Wolfman]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Why is that an issue?

You win

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by memphusk

I would be happier if I was in Tampa to give him 7 years instead of 8 anyways.

… they are cap strung…

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Why would anyone think the Flames aren’t willing to trade Hanifin as a rental?

They don’t care. They want the best return. Rental, sign and trade, doesn’t matter.

If say 5 teams assumed that the price is too rich because the two Florida teams aren't offering a premium to get him signed, they may not be in the mix.

However I doubt Conroy isn't talking to everyone and keeping those clubs updated.

Wonder how much of this is the hope/PR side of picking up a player and having the fan base know he won't resign, vs hoping he will resign.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Wonder how much of this is the hope/PR side of picking up a player and having the fan base know he won't resign, vs hoping he will resign.

This is one of those rare situations where the hyphen in ‘re-sign’ is critically important.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Wolfman

Nobody is suggesting they aren't. There's a lot of smoke around Brisson and Hanifin having a preferred destination. That's what people are talking about.

He has always had that.

It has changed though....apparently anyhow.

First it was Boston and his home town.

Then it was Florida to reunite with Tkachuk.

Now according to the ditterverse, its Tampa.

Im not convinced anyone other than those directly involved know anything for sure.

One thing is for sure though....the talking head/insider crowd are getting all the attention they seek.

[liamenator]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

There’s no conspiracy against Conroy and the Flames. Other GMs aren’t picking on him. Brisson isn’t doing anything the agents for other pending UFAs haven’t done in the past.

Market conditions are working against the Flames. Their big UFA is apparently only willing to sign with a couple teams. Several of the teams in win now mode have previously traded away their 1sts and 2nds. Others are more in need of a RHD than LHD. And the cap crunch makes any deal with significant salary difficult to pull off.

It’s frustrating. But talk about strong-arming and sending signals is off-base. The NHL trade market isn’t as emotional and macho as some fans seem to think. Taking a worse deal to ‘send a signal’ would be foolish. The only signal it would send would that they’re willing to cut off their nose to spite their face. Conroy and the rest of Flames management are smarter than that.

The bigger issue is that NHL players are exercising more control over where they play, and more and more of them don’t want to play in Canada. Fans need to recognize this unwelcome new reality. And Canadian teams need to get their heads around what this means for running their franchises. It probably means making tougher decisions sooner.

I don't disagree at all about Canadian markets. It's an unfortunate recent development that's going to require teams to rethink their approach to hockey operations.



Regarding the other points -- I didn't say it was a conspiracy, or that other teams are "picking" on Conroy. I said they are trying to squeeze a first-year GM. I didn't mean to imply that it was unique to Conroy or the Flames. It happens every year.


My point is that it's compounding an already difficult set of circumstances. And, by extension, I'm not convinced Brisson and Hanifin would try this approach against a more experienced GM.



I'm also not sure there are as many precedents for how Brisson and Hanifin are (allegedly) handling this as you suggest. Could you provide an example or two of a player and his agent trying to not only steer his trade to a preferred destination, but also dissuade potential rental suitors from becoming involved, so as to ensure the client receives an 8-year contract? Maybe this has happened a bunch before, but I can't recall many examples.


Finally, I'm not talking about taking a vastly inferior deal. I said "slightly lesser." What I mean is: if Tampa thinks it has the Flames over the barrel and presents an offer that's not market value for an extended Hanifin, and there are deals from rental suitors that are lesser but proximate to what TB is offering, maybe you sacrifice a little in the short term to dissuade players and agents from acting in the future as Brisson and Hanifin have been.



I mentioned the Burke and Cammelleri non-trade as analogous to what I mean here. Do you think Burke's decision to not trade Cammallerri was foolish, an example of cutting off the nose to spite the face? If so, fair enough, but I disagree. I think it was wise in the long-run in terms of rebuilding the franchise's reputation after the Feaster years, in which the Flames seem to have become known as an easy get around the league. I'm suggesting Conroy do something similar, though more proactive, here.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Hanifin and Brisson are doing nothing wrong in my opinion. A team interested in Hanifin can ask if he is interested in signing long term, and he either says, nope or provides the contractual framework (presumably 8x7-8ish).

A signed Hanifin is worth more than an unsigned Hanifin, sure, but they aren't tanking his value to spite the Flames, they are just telling those teams where they stand. The risk Hanifin takes is that if he is too restrictive, the Flames pivot to a rental deal for any team that isn't on his no-trade list. I think both sides are motivated to be reasonable and attain a win-win. May not happen, but I think the motivation is there, even if that motivation is primarily self interest.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

Hanifin and Brisson are doing nothing wrong in my opinion. A team interested in Hanifin can ask if he is interested in signing long term, and he either says, nope or provides the contractual framework (presumably 8x7-8ish).

A signed Hanifin is worth more than an unsigned Hanifin, sure, but they aren't tanking his value to spite the Flames, they are just telling those teams where they stand. The risk Hanifin takes is that if he is too restrictive, the Flames pivot to a rental deal for any team that isn't on his no-trade list. I think both sides are motivated to be reasonable and attain a win-win. May not happen, but I think the motivation is there, even if that motivation is primarily self interest.

It only makes sense to warn an employer that signed you to a 3 month contract that you don't plan on extending. Saves you a lot of awkward BS.

Hanifin wants all the rumours around him to be finished in one swoop. I can't blame him.

[liamenator]

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

Hanifin and Brisson are doing nothing wrong in my opinion. A team interested in Hanifin can ask if he is interested in signing long term, and he either says, nope or provides the contractual framework (presumably 8x7-8ish).

A signed Hanifin is worth more than an unsigned Hanifin, sure, but they aren't tanking his value to spite the Flames, they are just telling those teams where they stand. The risk Hanifin takes is that if he is too restrictive, the Flames pivot to a rental deal for any team that isn't on his no-trade list. I think both sides are motivated to be reasonable and attain a win-win. May not happen, but I think the motivation is there, even if that motivation is primarily self interest.

It's not a question of right and wrong. They are acting in a way that is measurably bad for the Flames' ability to receive maximum value for their asset. It would be good for the Flames if agents and players did not act in this way in the future.

So, I think the goal here is two-fold: you do the best you can in maximizing what is now a distressed asset, and you show others around the league that you're not just going to roll over and acquiesce to a situation that is bad for your franchise. The hope is that the latter disincentivizes agents and players from trying this kind of thing with your team in the future.