[Trade] Flames trade Tanev (double retention) to Dallas for 2nd, cond. 3rd, Grushnikov

[TheIronMaiden]

Here is a list of active second round pick point leaders in the NHL, to give perspective on what is possible.

https://www.quanthockey.com/nhl-draf...s-leaders.html

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

??? Scott Bakula is an NHL analyst now? What can't he do?

Find his way home.

[chummer]

Originally Posted by Royle9

Dallas got the best player so of course its a slam dunk A+ for their playoff push.

Nothing is going to push this trade in the flames favor sadly, the prospect is underwhelming across the board so its going to look bad for the flames. Just hope that he can amount to something positive in the next few years, its early so no sense in judgement at this point.

Lol

[8sPOT]

When you know you’re not bad enough to get into lottery pick territory this is how you build a team.

Add picks and prospects. The more you have the better the chance some pan out and even turn into stars.

This trade was a great trade long term for the Flames. A 2nd round pick is a great draft pick. And a defensive prospect? Sign me up!

Once Hanifin is dealt we may end up with 5 or 6 picks in the top 64. That’s a great haul in my opinion, not to mention the picks in future drafts.

I’m thinking a Markstrom deal is more likely to happen in the off season, but if he’s also dealt that adds more picks/prospects/young players.

All this happening while the Flames are still chasing a wild card spot. That is super encouraging!

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by Royle9

Dallas got the best player so of course its a slam dunk A+ for their playoff push.

Nothing is going to push this trade in the flames favor sadly, the prospect is underwhelming across the board so its going to look bad for the flames. Just hope that he can amount to something positive in the next few years, its early so no sense in judgement at this point.

"There is no sense in judgment at this point, so I am going to judge it and state there is no way the Flames can win this trade."

There are a few ways the Flames can win this trade:

1) Grushnikov turns into a solid 3/4, stay at home dman, whom the Flames keep for 10+ years. That's a win.

2) The 2nd round pick plays 500+ games for the Flames in virtually any capacity. I would call that a win.

3) The 2nd round pick is traded for a player who does the above. I would call that a win.

4) The 2nd round pick and something else are packaged together to land a higher pick, who turns into something great. I would call that a win.

While I thought the Flames would get more than this for Tanev, obviously the GMs in the NHL were not prepared to do so, and Conroy got a package he was satisfied with in order to pull the trigger. What we thought or wanted is irrelevant.

[Royle9]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

I think you have lost sight of the fact that Tanev is a 34 year old UFA who has no intention of re signing with the Flames.

This next bit isn't directed at you necessarily, but in general, folks are too concerned with "winning trades" it isn't all about winning the trade, it is sometimes about prudent asset management and getting a fair deal for players.

No that's fair, I'm just referencing the media outlets who "grade" the trade and have the Flames losing this one unanimously.

Originally Posted by chummer

Lol

Again, I'm referring to the media outlets across the board who love to make something out of trades as if there's a winner/loser.
TSN/Sportsnet and just about every podcast seems to be pushing this narrative of Conroy losing this trade.
I'm PERSONALLY not passing judgment on it - we got a 2nd round pick and its too early to know what the prospect pans out as.

[Kipper_3434]

Flames can't lose this trade. 25 games of a 2nd pair defenceman for multiple lottery tickets. That's a win. No what's not a win? Letting brodie walk to free agency then doing the same with Gaudreau. I appreciate Connie doing what needs to be done.

[fotze2]

Any chance Grushnikov gets some games up with the big team? (I'm sure this has been asked).

Also, Trading Tanev probably gives us the equivalence of moving up in the draft 4 spots due to us being that much crappier.

[Jiggy]

I was talking to someone in the Kings organization about the trade and he said he can see Grushnikov be a Vladislav Gavrikov type of player in the NHL.

[Heavy Jack]

Maybe once Hanifin is moved as well? I kinda don’t mind the idea of Grushnikov - Poirier being a pairing for Calgary Wranglers down the stretch and into the playoffs. It would be awesome if the Wranglers could take a run at the Calder Cup this year with all the youth we have down there that have promising ceilings.

[ResAlien]

The negative reactions to this trade seems to be based on the rampant wild speculation and overvaluation of what a rental 34 year old defensive defenceman was worth.

Sure maybe they wanted a first but they didn’t get it now did they? Want in one hand etc etc. Feels like if Markstrom goes for anything less than the Lindros package some folks will be ready to burn the saddledome down

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

The negative reactions to this trade seems to be based on the rampant wild speculation and overvaluation of what a rental 34 year old defensive defenceman was worth.

Sure maybe they wanted a first but they didn’t get it now did they? Want in one hand etc etc. Feels like if Markstrom goes for anything less than the Lindros package some folks will be ready to burn the saddledome down

It also doesn't consider the fact the Flames hold the most vabluable trade asset at the deadline. One fewer D man makes Hanfiin's value increase.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Saqe

It's one of the things I've read.


So if rankings don't matter isn't it just better to turn all your higher picks into multiple lower picks? That way you have "more fish in the barrel". Seems like you need to do a lot of praying with this tactic.

You're just being obtuse here.

Obviously you are better off having a 1st round pick than a 3rd round pick, only a moron would argue differently.

The point, with respect to ranking a team's prospects, is that the correlation between their rank and their likelihood of being an NHLer is not as high as you might think. It's better to look at it in tiers. For the Flames currently:

Tier 1 (80-100% NHLer): Zary, Wolf, Pelletier, Pospisil, Coronato

Tier 2 (good chance): Honzek, Morin, Brzustewicz, Poirier, Suniev

Tier 3 (decent chance): Solovyov, Kuznetsov, Schwindt, Klapka

Tier 4 (chance): Stromgren, Kerins

Tier 5 (long shot): everyone else

But outside of Tier 1, literally anything can happen. You could argue that Grushnikov should be in Tier 2 or 3, but either way, it's completely irrelevant, and his likelihood of making the NHL is exactly the same.

How anyone actually ranks these players has no bearing on how likely they are to make it, and the Flames have a pretty deep pool - not much in the blue chip category, but very strong with respect to potential NHLers. So again, saying he's around 10th (as opposed to 4th or 5th (or higher) on a team like the Oilers, is irrelevant.

[GioforPM]

[OILFAN #81]

Congratulations to Chris Tanev and the Chris Tanev family!

All jokes aside, even before this trade I posted that I thought he was a stabilizer on a dcore and any team would be lucky to have him. I think I read on here that a few posters would have had him as priority number 1 for playoff teams and I agree. He is someone who can alter a d group with his defensive play. I'm really surprised other teams weren't willing to give more on him. Teams should have been lining up for him imo. Dallas really strengthened their team.

I think the Hanifin deal is where Calgary will get a 1st, good prospect and a 4th type of deal.

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

How anyone actually ranks these players has no bearing on how likely they are to make it,

This makes no sense.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

I disagree with that approach. Just take the best players and work it out down the road. I'd rather draft 15 Johnny Gaudreau's than one (insert grinder here). You can trade one Gaudreau and get 5 grinders down the road. I think its a mistake to try to fill the lesser roles on team.

Identify the roles that you can rarely get in a trade or free agency (i.e. 1st line centre) and draft/trade for prospects who have a chance to fill that role whenever you can get it.

Sure, draft BPA

But when making trades, and acquiring prospects, why would you ignore team needs? Targeting positions of weakness is exactly what should be done.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Kipper_3434

Flames can't lose this trade. 25 games of a 2nd pair defenceman for multiple lottery tickets. That's a win. No what's not a win? Letting brodie walk to free agency then doing the same with Gaudreau. I appreciate Connie doing what needs to be done.

25 games of a pending UFA dman.

[Svartsengi]

I like the deal. From what I have learned about Grushnikov he sounds like a solid prospect and we will see what the 2nd rounder becomes in time. The so called experts on tv that didn’t like the return for Tyler Toffoli don’t look so smart now. I will be patient it’s better accumulating prospects and draft picks than consistently trading them away for the Travis Hamonic’s of the world.

[Johnny Makarov]

We need Tanev to come back so we can sign his brother Tanev the following year!

You can't have enough Tanev's on a team.