[Trade] Flames trade Tanev (double retention) to Dallas for 2nd, cond. 3rd, Grushnikov

[Barnet Flame]

Conroy has beyond all doubt demonstrated that the failed strategy of the past is now firmly in the past. I like this trade because it puts the stamp on a new approach that by its very nature is going to take time to come to fruition.

The “Success now” approach delivered nothing. Connie is giving us hope and is seeking to build something with players that will be invested with this team.

As for this deal in isolation? It seems fair to me. Tanev has the heart of a lion, he’ll contribute to his new team right from the first shift, probably beforehand. But only one team can win the Cup, Tanev improves Dallas’ chances, but that heart has put his body through a lot. There is a material risk that he could take that knock puts him on the sidelines. This has to factor in the return we get, which is why I think it’s fair.

Lastly, any move we make that increases the likelihood that Dallas eliminate Edmonton or Vancouver, is a good move.

Go get ‘em Chris!

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

That's kind of what ‘underwhelming’ means.

To me it means a bit disappointed, as he was hoping for more.

It does not necessarily mean “bad”, unless the expectation was that it would be a poor return to start with.

If someone was hoping for Stankoven (however unreasonable that may be), this was an underwhelming return, but would not be bad.

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by dino7c

not really relevant to the trade tree, at all
Leafs also couldn't give Brodie away right now

Trade tree? You mean the trade sapling, a single branch that just happened.

We signed Tanev because we couldn’t re-sign Brodie. We all know that. It was a wash and we ended up with the better player on the better contract.

[devo22]

really hoped some team would pay a 1st when all is said and done, but a 2nd plus a prospect was probably always the more realistic return. Not really high on Grushnikov from what I've read about him ... I'll happily eat crow, but he doesn't seem to be more than a low ceiling depth prospect. Really hoped for a better prospect here, like a Tristan Bertucci for example.

Certainly a bit of a "meh" return for me. I'm glad Conroy sticks to the plan and makes those trades in spite of recent results, and I'm glad he's using retention. But Dallas got an absolute beauty for a very reasonable price here, to put it mildly. Especially since there seemed to be numerous teams circling.

[Nelson]

6 thoughts on the morning after the trade:

1. Go Dallas go, because of Tanev, whom I love, and because of the condition on the 2026 3rd.

2. The return is probably about market value because Frank Seravalli *spit* said he conducted a thorough review of trades involving very similar players, and he said the return would be a 2nd + maybe a prospect, not a 1st.

3. Ultimately, the value of the return will be in how well the Flames use their pick(s) and develop their prospects. Good players are obtained in the second round. Just ask the Stars about Logan Stankoven.

4. I’m excited Flames’ fans are gonna get to see Artem Grushnikov play for the Wranglers immediately. I’m going to keep an open mind about Grushnikov because Conroy seems like a shrewd talent evaluator, and defencemen who concentrate on defending well through skating, good gaps and a good stick can be quite valuable. Also, Dallas is very good at drafting.

5. I think this trade shows the future is hopeful for Flames’ fans in 3 ways: it shows Conroy still has a good working relationship with NJ GM Tom Fitzgerald, it shows the Flames will retain the maximum amount possible when required to get a deal done, and it shows Conroy has his eyes on the long-term.

6. Trading Tanev now allows Conroy to focus on more complex deals for Hanifin and maybe Markstrom. I’m glad Conroy has one less task on his plate with 8 days until the deadline.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by devo22

really hoped some team would pay a 1st when all is said and done, but a 2nd plus a prospect was probably always the more realistic return. Not really high on Grushnikov from what I've read about him ... I'll happily eat crow, but he doesn't seem to be more than a low ceiling depth prospect. Really hoped for a better prospect here, like a Tristan Bertucci for example.

Certainly a bit of a "meh" return for me. I'm glad Conroy sticks to the plan and makes those trades in spite of recent results, and I'm glad he's using retention. But Dallas got an absolute beauty for a very reasonable price here, to put it mildly. Especially since there seemed to be numerous teams circling.

That’s why I’m disappointed we didn’t wait a little longer. Plenty of time for a team to bite. But we traded him too soon. Don’t mind the return but also feel like we could’ve received a 1st or at least a conditional 2nd/1st.

[Imported_Aussie]

The other thing to consider with this trade is whether holding both defenceman was impacting the market. They are different types of players for sure but now the focus can be solely on getting a deal for Hanafin, and with Tanev gone, does that increase urgency of offers?

Seems like with Grushnikov they went for a type of player we don't have a lot of in the system. Maybe he ends up a solid pro, but for all our speculation it's doubtful Stankoven or Bourque were ever on the table

[CalgaryFan1988]

The fact that Conroy isn't just content on making the playoffs makes this a huge win for me. 5 points out and selling is what I wanted to see.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

That’s why I’m disappointed we didn’t wait a little longer. Plenty of time for a team to bite. But we traded him too soon. Don’t mind the return but also feel like we could’ve received a 1st or at least a conditional 2nd/1st.

Except I think competing teams knew that the time was now, that message was out there.

Since no one bit, Conroy pulled the trigger on what he considered the best deal.

If he waited, Dallas may have gone another way, Tanev is not the only dman out there.

Teams had a long time to offer a first, no one did. Waiting likely would not have changed that.

Although we'll never know.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Imported_Aussie

The other thing to consider with this trade is whether holding both defenceman was impacting the market. They are different types of players for sure but now the focus can be solely on getting a deal for Hanafin, and with Tanev gone, does that increase urgency of offers?

Seems like with Grushnikov they went for a type of player we don't have a lot of in the system. Maybe he ends up a solid pro, but for all our speculation it's doubtful Stankoven or Bourque were ever on the table

Stankoven was never on the table, he's a large part of Dallas' future going forward.

Calgary would jump at Stankoven for Hanifin straight across.

If Bourque was ever on the table, he'd be a Flames now. Bourque for Tanev straight up would have been a great return, and Bourque would now be flying to Calgary to play on Saturday.

Prospects of that ilk are seldom available in these type of deadline deals.

They are just too important in a cap world for teams to replace more expensive players. It's why draft picks and lesser prospects are what usually get moved.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

That’s why I’m disappointed we didn’t wait a little longer. Plenty of time for a team to bite. But we traded him too soon. Don’t mind the return but also feel like we could’ve received a 1st or at least a conditional 2nd/1st.

Or maybe NJ to retain the other 25% was no longer going to be on the table, and the deal with Dallas falls through and you take a package you like less. You get less. Obviously Conroy wanted this deal over next best offer, and I expect he knows the market. You can say Flames should have kept him if that was the return. I think it's incorrect to say he should have waited for better.

[SutterBrother]

I like the name "Grush" quite a bit, but given this thread, I think we have to go with "Girth" as his nickname.

Removing Tanev from the trade market now drives up the market for Hannafin. There are sphincters at other NHL offices that just tightened as a result of this deal. Prospects and picks are available this morning that weren't last night as GMs look at their playoff opponents and want to get a leg up.

[SutterBrother]

To some extent the reaction here reminds me of when we traded future lunatic Theoren Fleury for defensive defenceman prospect Robyn Regehr. Although he was a late 1st rather than a mid 2nd.

[ForeverFlameFan]

[

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Except I think competing teams knew that the time was now, that message was out there.

Since no one bit, Conroy pulled the trigger on what he considered the best deal.

If he waited, Dallas may have gone another way, Tanev is not the only dman out there.

Teams had a long time to offer a first, no one did. Waiting likely would not have changed that.

Although we'll never know.

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

Or maybe NJ to retain the other 25% was no longer going to be on the table, and the deal with Dallas falls through and you take a package you like less. You get less. Obviously Conroy wanted this deal over next best offer, and I expect he knows the market. You can say Flames should have kept him if that was the return. I think it's incorrect to say he should have waited for better.

That’s fair. I guess it boils down to what we value Grushnikov. Is he enough to bridge the gap between a 2nd and 1st round pick? some likely argue yes, others not so much if they don’t value prospects too much. I think it’s roughly the same value. And just to be clear, I am fine with the return. Just wish the conditional 3rd was instead the condition to the 2nd rounder turning into a 1st.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by All In Good Time

Crazy
When it was rumoured that the ask was a first, the consensus was that no one was offering that much
When the actual return is a second and a prospect, it gets graded a D
Baffling

There are two streams of trade talk: the rumours from those in the know, and the speculation that members of the media and fans love to indulge in.

In the lead-up to the deadline, there’s vastly more of the latter being shared on the internet. To the extent where it comes to feel real in the minds of many. Some dork on a forum, or Athletic contributor looking to file a trade hype article, suggests Bourque + a 2nd for Tanev. And next thing you know it’s being shared and repeated all over the inter-webs until people start to think it’s a real thing, and not just some fantasy spun out of the ether. Then, when the actual deal that was worked out by NHL executives materializes, people are disappointed because it doesn’t match the fantasy deal.

[TOfan]

Made a final RRSP contribution yesterday ahead of tax season. Kinda feels like the Flames did the same thing.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by browna

That may be the best deal on the table now, 9 days before the deadline.

IMO those prices were only going to go up for a pure rental guy like Tanev.

A guy with the character of Tanev is coveted, there is no real comparison available in his situation right now, so Dallas would've still been there this time next week, with more to offer, at worst...for example that conditional pick may not be conditional anymore, or nor would it be 2 years out.

Why do you assume that? Recent history shows the bigger fish get snapped up in the weeks before the deadline, and the deadline itself mainly sees bargain shopping for the leftovers.

The Flames would have circled back to every team interested in Tanev and told them they had a final chance to up their offers. Evidently, they didn’t. Unless they thought Conroy was bluffing, why would these teams not give him their genuine best offer?

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

To me Grushnikov is the key to if it’s a good trade or not. Stats say he is nothing special but we’ll see

Also it’s looking like the Flames don’t do retention is true. Otherwise what the hell Conroy is saving the retention for?

I’m sure someone else has advised you, but Calgary retained 50%.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by IamNotKenKing

I’m sure someone else has advised you, but Calgary retained 50%.

Yes I saw that, just got home and read the title of this thread and thought NJ retained 75%

Any explanations on why the Flames didn’t retain the whole thing and get the extra 4th pick? Only few weeks left.

[devo22]

I think it's clear that the likes of Stankoven or Bourque were never on the table, and that's fine. I don't think a 2nd plus a B prospect (and a longshot conditional 3rd) is a bad retutn in isolation, the thing that irks me is the quality of the prospect. I had no illusions about their top prospects, but Grushnikov just feels underwhelming to me. Again, just prove me wrong, kid.