2023/2024 Trade Rumors and Speculation Thread

[Enoch Root]

If NHL teams are incorrectly choosing size over 'small talent' then there is an opportunity to be exploited there. And GMing in a cap world is an efficiency game, so any opportunity to get an edge will be exploited by someone.

So here is a simple question: name a team that is generating success by consistently drafting smaller players. I won't even ask for cups, just success. Should be easy enough, if those opportunities are just hanging there.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

But again, it's not an exact science. And the simple fact of the matter is that being 5'8" makes the odds longer for being an NHLer

Plus, it's still too early to say who the best player available at that time will eventually be.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by D as in David

Do you realize that is just another poster speculating that's why the Flames made the choice they did? Some other poster's thought of what happened is enough to get you on the "Flames are reprehensible" train?

I'm attacking the logic, not the Flames. I have no idea if they did think that way.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by D as in David

Do you realize that is just another poster speculating that's why the Flames made the choice they did? Some other poster's thought of what happened is enough to get you on the "Flames are reprehensible" train?

butterfly is a Sith

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

butterfly is a Sith

No idea what that is, but sorry if I upset you.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by butterfly

No idea what that is, but sorry if I upset you.

you haven't upset me, I enjoy these conversations.

Star Wars - Sith. "only a Sith speaks in absolutes"

[Enoch Root]

and to be clear, I meant it in fun

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

you haven't upset me, I enjoy these conversations.

Star Wars - Sith. "only a Sith speaks in absolutes"

Oh. I don't know if that's absolutism. If you have an opportunity to get a highly skilled player I think it would be foolish to turn it down because of their size, that's all.

It doesn't have to do with Stankoven specifically or me being critical of the Stromgren pick. But if the scouts loved Stankoven and we passed because of size and who we drafted in the first round, I'm beside myself.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by butterfly

Oh. I don't know if that's absolutism. If you have an opportunity to get a highly skilled player I think it would be foolish to turn it down because of their size, that's all.

It doesn't have to do with Stankoven specifically or me being critical of the Stromgren pick. But if the scouts loved Stankoven and we passed because of size and who we drafted in the first round, I'm beside myself.

These decisions wouldn't be made in isolation like this - one would expect that much more would go into it it, like who else are we planning on drafting this year, and what does our prospect base currently look like - especially at the position in question.

But as per the bold above - if they made the decision, and took someone else, just because thy were bigger and they had taken a small player in the first round, then I agree with you, that would be pretty bad.

But again, I don't think that's the case.

[traptor]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

If NHL teams are incorrectly choosing size over 'small talent' then there is an opportunity to be exploited there. And GMing in a cap world is an efficiency game, so any opportunity to get an edge will be exploited by someone.

So here is a simple question: name a team that is generating success by consistently drafting smaller players. I won't even ask for cups, just success. Should be easy enough, if those opportunities are just hanging there.

I dont think anyone is saying draft only small players.
But its fine to take a couples swings every draft if the BPA happens to be a bit smaller.

Tampa did pretty well taking swings on Kucherov and Point.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by traptor

I dont think anyone is saying draft only small players.
But its fine to take a couples swings every draft if the BPA happens to be a bit smaller.

Tampa did pretty well taking swings on Kucherov and Point.

and the Flames did pretty well with Gaudreau and Fleury. So I am not sure there's a problem here.

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

If NHL teams are incorrectly choosing size over 'small talent' then there is an opportunity to be exploited there. And GMing in a cap world is an efficiency game, so any opportunity to get an edge will be exploited by someone.

So here is a simple question: name a team that is generating success by consistently drafting smaller players. I won't even ask for cups, just success. Should be easy enough, if those opportunities are just hanging there.

Colorado was the third shortest team at the beginning of the year. They're the sixth shortest now. Their forwards are pretty large, but their defense are surprisingly small. Makar is 5'11. Girard is 5'10. Toews and Byram are 6'1. They're kind of the opposite of Tampa, who won cups with huge defensemen and smaller forwards.

I'd say weight matters more. Vegas is the heaviest team in the league and just won the cup. And there are always players like Bouwmeester, Myers, and Hamilton that get 40% of their height from their neck.

The Flames have been remarkably good with drafting and finding small players throughout their history. The Flames haven't had a ton of success overall, but them picking small players is not the reason for said lack of success.

Just look at the second round. In the past 10 years, nearly every 2nd round pick that was shorter than 6'2 was a good pick (Andersson, Kylington, Dube, Morin). Nearly every player that was 6'2 or taller was a bust (see McDonald, Smith, probably Stromgren and Ronni). Kent Manderville is probably the Flames' best 2nd round pick that was 6'2 or taller since the cup win. And he was picked in 1989. And even he only had 100 points. For whatever reason, in the second round, the Flames are a lot better a picking players that aren't huge.

[Enoch Root]

Where did Colorado rank when they won the cup?

Is 6'2" the line in the sand now? I don't think anyone is calling Andersson and Kylington small, but okay.

[Meelapo]

Not to add too much fuel to the fire or get off topic. But for some perspective, here's Logan Stankoven celebrating with his teammates:

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Where did Colorado rank when they won the cup?

Is 6'2" the line in the sand now? I don't think anyone is calling Andersson and Kylington small, but okay.

I think for me personally I would consider 5'10" and under small, 5'11-6'2" as average, and then 6'3" and taller as "big" for NHLers

Looking at those groupings and how many NHLers fall into each:

5'10" and under: 93 players
5'11 - 6'2": 540 players
6'3" and over: 236 players

[Enoch Root]

agreed, and I don't think 5'10" is a big deal, but below that, it starts to get dicey

as for that Stankoven pick, that can't be real

[TheScorpion]

I think that photo was taken from above and behind Stankoven's side of the celebration. Perspective is a little off. But those are also some pretty big guys in the huddle.

Edit: hold on, what do you mean Hanley (left) is only 5'11"? Lol something is up with that angle for sure. That is hilarious.

Edit 2: lol well it's actually Thomas Harley on the left, who is vastly taller. So funny that Dallas has defenders named Hanley and Harley who both wear repeated digits.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

agreed, and I don't think 5'10" is a big deal, but below that, it starts to get dicey

as for that Stankoven pick, that can't be real

Some of it is probably a bit of a visual effect thing from where the picture is taken ...

Stankoven: 5'8"
Harley: 6'4"
Lindell: 6'3"
Marchment: 6'5"
Duchene: 6'1"

So some big guys on the ice with him.

[Enoch Root]

well they're all more than a foot taller than him (in the picture), so either he is 4'9" (or they are 7 footers), or that is one hell of a camera angle, or it is fake

[SuperMatt18]

He is 8 inches shorter than Harley and 9 inches shorter than Marchment...so you combine that with the unfavourable camera angle and yeah you get the hilarious picture.

But he is very tiny for sure.