We should not be celebrating a person who continues to support a known war criminal and child killer. His friends people have been proven to rape and torture children.
I can't understand why this isn't a bigger issue in the hockey world.
If a player supported and was friends with someone who did this to one child he would be an outcast, let alone someone who has thousands of such brutalities to his name. Is it because his friend, the killer, is so bad that it gets ignored?
His friend is an internationally wanted war criminal.
Someone please help me understand why this is tolerated. This includes having a thread on cp praising Ovechkin, discusting in my opinion.
__________________
Sure, Edmonton sucks, but I don't want Kid Hee-haw and his heiress from la-di-da St. Louis dissing it - that's OUR dumb kid brother, not thiers. -Courtesy of Jammies
Last edited by HockeyKhan; 02-23-2024 at 02:56 AM.
There is a very great difference between a criminal who kills children, rapes, or tortures himself, and the leader of a country at war whose armed forces have committed those crimes. Moreover, there is no crime in having a friend who has committed crimes; and there is no crime in continuing to be friends with a criminal, no matter how notorious or despicable that criminal may be.
Here is the nub of the CBC news story:
Quote:
Now, some are questioning why Ovechkin hasn't faced discipline or suspension, despite being Putin's champion.
The answer to that is that the league does not have the authority to discipline or suspend players for their citizenship or political affiliations. It is not a crime in the United States or Canada to support Putin, or to speak in his support. Ovechkin hasn't been charged with anything, and under the laws of the countries the league operates in, he hasn't done anything illegal. If the league tried to suspend him, the PA would certainly file a grievance, and the matter would go before the courts, where the league would be all but certain to lose.
HockeyKhan, you want a player thrown out of the NHL simply because he doesn't hate a person whom you hate. No organization and no society can be run on that basis.
__________________
WARNING: The preceding message may not have been processed in a sarcasm-free facility.
There is a very great difference between a criminal who kills children, rapes, or tortures himself, and the leader of a country at war whose armed forces have committed those crimes. Moreover, there is no crime in having a friend who has committed crimes; and there is no crime in continuing to be friends with a criminal, no matter how notorious or despicable that criminal may be.
Here is the nub of the CBC news story:
The answer to that is that the league does not have the authority to discipline or suspend players for their citizenship or political affiliations. It is not a crime in the United States or Canada to support Putin, or to speak in his support. Ovechkin hasn't been charged with anything, and under the laws of the countries the league operates in, he hasn't done anything illegal. If the league tried to suspend him, the PA would certainly file a grievance, and the matter would go before the courts, where the league would be all but certain to lose.
HockeyKhan, you want a player thrown out of the NHL simply because he doesn't hate a person whom you hate. No organization and no society can be run on that basis.
I didn't say anything about kicking him out of the league, I said it is disgusting to be praising him. I didn't say it was a crime. He openly supports his child killing friend.
Go and read up on why he is a wanted war criminal and then come tell me it is his army that committed these hanous acts and that he had nothing to do with it.
The only discussion we should be having about Ovechkin is what a discusting person he is for supporting Putin, that is and was my whole point.
__________________
Sure, Edmonton sucks, but I don't want Kid Hee-haw and his heiress from la-di-da St. Louis dissing it - that's OUR dumb kid brother, not thiers. -Courtesy of Jammies
We should not be celebrating a person who continues to support a known war criminal and child killer. His friends people have been proven to rape and torture children.
I can't understand why this isn't a bigger issue in the hockey world.
If a player supported and was friends with someone who did this to one child he would be an outcast, let alone someone who has thousands of such brutalities to his name. Is it because his friend, the killer, is so bad that it gets ignored?
His friend is an internationally wanted war criminal.
Someone please help me understand why this is tolerated. This includes having a thread on cp praising Ovechkin, discusting in my opinion.
Some very valid points without a doubt. I struggle with this myself as well and it is different for Russian players, especially elite ones. They are part of a different scene and are at different levels of risk. Putin does put prominent athletes out there to sell his propaganda, just like sometimes I think other countries as well without the same negative effects.
I do think Ovi is Pro Russia and Pro Putin and that's ok. Is he pro war with Ukraine? I don't know, probably not but who knows. I know there is some concerns with his social media pictures and Putin and those are valid but they are also just pictures. How he feels in his heart and his mind is probably more important. You can still love your country, your leader, your history and not agree with everything.
Although not the best comparison, I recall Tom Brady having a MAGA hat in his locker, showing minor support for Trump running for President. I believe they may have had a friendly, golf style friendship/relationship. The press picked up on it and everybody went nuts. After he won the election and the Patriots were scheduled to go to the White House, seemed like his wife put the hammer down and he decided not to go.
I never thought anybody would get this close to Gretzky and he isn't quite there yet but it's interesting to see. Ovi is in sports at the moment and not politics so we can judge him based on that. If he breaks the record, I will be observing as a hockey fan at this accomplishment. If he doesn't for whatever reason, I will say it's probably karma in some ways.
I didn't say anything about kicking him out of the league, I said it is disgusting to be praising him. I didn't say it was a crime.
I was responding to the CBC article that you thought was so telling. The article specifically raised the question why Ovechkin is still allowed to play in the league. I can address that question if I like.
Quote:
He openly supports his child killing friend.
His ‘friend’ has not, in fact, killed any children. But if you want to go down that road, then every single leader of a country at war is a child-killer. There has never been a war in which children did not get killed.
Quote:
Go and read up on why he is a wanted war criminal and then come tell me it is his army that committed these hanous acts and that he had nothing to do with it.
I'm perfectly familiar with what's going on there, thank you, and I never said he had nothing to do with it. But he did not commit these crimes personally, and frankly, the principal blame falls on the soldiers who did these things. It's quite clear under international law that no one can lawfully command a soldier to commit a war crime.
Quote:
The only discussion we should be having about Ovechkin is what a discusting person he is for supporting Putin, that is and was my whole point.
Well, that's your opinion. We are not all required to hate the people you hate, and we certainly are not required to censor ourselves from talking about subjects that you don't wish to see discussed.
You know what Putin was doing for years before he became a war criminal? Shutting down dissent, just like you're trying to do here. The big difference is that he does have the power to do that and you, thank God, don't.
__________________
WARNING: The preceding message may not have been processed in a sarcasm-free facility.
The whole OV/Putin topic has been beaten to death at this point. This photo tells all you need to know.
Spoiler!
I mean common, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to know exactly who he is talking about. In case someone doesn't know, yes it's Ukrainians he is talking about. His parents are both highly decorated russian olympic athletes who have personal relationships with putin. His entire family are sports' heroes back home. The russian government has been using sports icons for years to help spread their propoganda. So yes, he supports putin and the war. That's not really debateable with the evidence shown to us. It's not that hard to put aside hockey feelings and to accept he simply is that kind of person. The world is full of them.
Personally for me this goal scoring record has been soured for a few years now. OV used to be my favorite player since the day I saw him playing in Dynamo Moscow. As exciting as it was to see Crosby about to break into the league, I was so much more hyped for OV. What a special player he is. I was so happy when I saw him win the cup and I'm still glad he did.
If you are able to differentiate between the hockey player and his political views, than it's easy to cheer him on to break the record. It's like your favorite musical artist who makes amazing music, but is a jackass in real life. OV is pretty much like that for me now. It will be cool to see him break the record, but also part of me will smile if he doesn't. I am torn about being so complacent about probably the best record in all of hockey. But it is what it is.
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Huntingwhale For This Useful Post:
I was responding to the CBC article that you thought was so telling. The article specifically raised the question why Ovechkin is still allowed to play in the league. I can address that question if I like.
His ‘friend’ has not, in fact, killed any children. But if you want to go down that road, then every single leader of a country at war is a child-killer. There has never been a war in which children did not get killed.
I'm perfectly familiar with what's going on there, thank you, and I never said he had nothing to do with it. But he did not commit these crimes personally, and frankly, the principal blame falls on the soldiers who did these things. It's quite clear under international law that no one can lawfully command a soldier to commit a war crime.
Well, that's your opinion. We are not all required to hate the people you hate, and we certainly are not required to censor ourselves from talking about subjects that you don't wish to see discussed.
I never said you can't discuss him. I only said that if you praise him you are a discusting or perhaps an uniformed individual.
You know what Putin was doing for years before he became a war criminal? Shutting down dissent, just like you're trying to do here. The big difference is that he does have the power to do that and you, thank God, don't.
There is a big difference between a democratically respected elected leader and someone like Putin. Did Hitler personality pull the trigger and kill children, no. Should we debate whether or not Hitler is responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths? I see no difference between Hitler and Putin.
Again, he doesn't have to personally do the deed to be responsible for these acts. He is being charged with kidnapping children among other things. He he personally throw the kids in a car, no of course not, but he is being criminally charged for it.
Again, I never said don't talk about him, I said you shouldn't praise him, in my opinion.
I personally see Zero difference between someone supporting Hitler and supporting Putin.
This is why I will always be a huge fan of Zadorov.
I am not here to debate whether or not Putin is a POS, that should be a given.
__________________
Sure, Edmonton sucks, but I don't want Kid Hee-haw and his heiress from la-di-da St. Louis dissing it - that's OUR dumb kid brother, not thiers. -Courtesy of Jammies
Last edited by HockeyKhan; 02-23-2024 at 04:51 PM.
So you just want to censor opinions that differ from yours.
How are you on Stalin and Mao?
Stalin and Mal committed atrocities against their own people Hitler and Putin committed and are committing a genocide.
__________________
Sure, Edmonton sucks, but I don't want Kid Hee-haw and his heiress from la-di-da St. Louis dissing it - that's OUR dumb kid brother, not thiers. -Courtesy of Jammies
Well, now I know you're not worth listening to on this subject.
I knew you weren't worth listening to the first post you responded to me and yet here we are.
And tell me where I said Stalin and Mao were better. You brought them up not me. I have been talking about Hitler and Putin.
__________________
Sure, Edmonton sucks, but I don't want Kid Hee-haw and his heiress from la-di-da St. Louis dissing it - that's OUR dumb kid brother, not thiers. -Courtesy of Jammies
as someone’s parents who grew up in the iron block, you cannot just simply just start saying anti dictator stuff without something or your family suffering consequences. It’s easy in our privileged lives in a country where you can be anti Trudeau, anti trump, etc. without any significant consequences in your life.
The second thing is Ovechkin had famous Olympian parents who probably always had a relationship with Russian officials. It’s not easy to be anti Putin when you live in Russia. That’s why you don’t see any Russians except for Zadorov go against the government. Remember what happened to Panarin?
Ovi is a good guy from all the stories that have been told of him. He hasn’t actively promoted Putin either, which he easily could if he wanted to supported him.
I swear all the Nor to Americans who just cry about this topic, have never had to be scared about their government doing something against them if they don’t support their actions. It’s not as easy as we think. He has family and relatives who live in Russia.
It’s like saying you support killing Iraqis and Iranians cuz you voted for Bush or Obama to a similar extent.
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to konradical For This Useful Post:
I knew you weren't worth listening to the first post you responded to me and yet here we are.
And tell me where I said Stalin and Mao were better. You brought them up not me. I have been talking about Hitler and Putin.
I asked you what you thought of Stalin and Mao. You said they killed their own people, as if that made a difference. It would seem that you feel that anyone who supports Putin is a monster, but supporting Stalin or Mao is OK.
By the way, Stalin also committed genocide against Ukrainians.
__________________
WARNING: The preceding message may not have been processed in a sarcasm-free facility.
:format(webp):no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/675282/Screen_Shot_2014-08-28_at_2.43.15_PM.0.png)
