There's a certain point with certain workers that wins don't matter. With Cena wins didn't matter in the end. He could have lost a bunch in a row and nobody would care and he didn't need to worry about titles and accolades because the audience was just happy to see him.
Passing the torch moments, yeah I do think they're important if you have the right intent. Sting didn't need a win, it wasn't going to tarnish him. I guess the question is would Darby beating a grandfather elevate him all that much? Its unlikely.
Did HHH beating the hell out of Sting and having everyone interfere in the match benefit HHH or the company? Nah.
Honestly I was glad that Sting didn't go out doing something stupid, or having an embarrassing and frightening match like Flair.
__________________
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
I think something similar will happen at Wrestlemaina, but for the other title. Priest and Drew have had a beef for months now. Here's how I see it playing out at Mania.
Drew beats Seth in a hard fought match. Seth needs some time off to heal up. Priest cashes in the contract on Drew... only then Judgement Day turn on Priest and cost him the title. Drew then takes over as the defacto leader of JD, and Priest turns face.
Eventually it ends up with Priest/Drew at Summerslam.
What happens with Randy Orton? That's someone I can't quite put my finger on. They really have nothing being built with him, and I don't see there being a "special attraction" type match with anyone on the roster. Maybe Solo Sikoa or Austin Theory, but those don't seem worth Orton's time at Mania. Perhaps they'll give him Logan Paul, but the LA Knight feud seems too obvious. Unless Knight gets Styles, then Orton is free to face Paul. The same applies to Zayn, where will he end up after losing a spot in Chamber tonight?
There are so many moving pieces they need to make use of at Mania, it'll be interesting to see how the booking goes, beyond having some random pointless multi-man match.
Last edited by trackercowe; 02-09-2024 at 10:09 PM.
Former longtime pro wrestling veteran William Albert Haynes III was arrested on Thursday morning after a near two-hour standoff with police, which included gunshots reportedly being fired from his home in the Lents area of Portland, Oregon.
Local authorities received reports of a gunshot at 6000 SE 100th Avenue around 9:52am on Thursday, February 8. KOIN Channel 6 is reporting that Haynes, 70, was not cooperative with the authorities who responded on the scene, leading to a special tactical team and crisis negotiators being brought to the home to handle the situation.
His local neighborhood was ordered to shelter in place while the ordeal was handled.
After a two-hour standoff, Haynes was arrested and taken into custody, where he was questioned overnight regarding the death of his wife, Janette Becraft, 85, in what is being considered a homicide investigation. The Medical Examiner is reporting that Becraft died of homicide via gunshot wound.
“I can confirm that the man we detained last night remains in police custody this morning,” Sgt. Kevin Allen told PWInsider.com. “He has not been booked into jail or charged with a crime, so we are not releasing his name at this time. I’m in communication with detectives and we will update the news release as soon as there is a development to report.”
A neighbor with ties to the family, Brilynn Matthieu, told local Portland FOX affiliate KPTV, “It’s a tragedy all around. Finally, being able to process the severity of the proximity of how close we were in nature. It’s my dad and I live and help take care of them. Recently, I was just taking care of his wife who had ongoing dementia. I was pretty decently close to both of them and loved them very much.”
We will keep you posted as additional details regarding this story continue to surface.
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My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Sammy Guevara is dangerous in the ring, as are many in AEW. Something really needs to be done about it. Poor Jeff, he wasn't even the one taking the jump and hurting himself this time.
Sammy Guevara is dangerous in the ring, as are many in AEW. Something really needs to be done about it. Poor Jeff, he wasn't even the one taking the jump and hurting himself this time.
No more than you'd see in NXT. Plus, it seems NXT talent tend to get hurt more with injuries outside the ring, particularly in the women's division. Not sure what's going on there, but their training methods are suspect IMO.
No more than you'd see in NXT. Plus, it seems NXT talent tend to get hurt more with injuries outside the ring, particularly in the women's division. Not sure what's going on there, but their training methods are suspect IMO.
I really really agree with this Ozy, there's something wrong with how wrestlers are being initially trained, and the risks their willing to take.
I remember, and remember I'm older then dirt, that when I first started watching wrestling it was pretty simple, the high flyers were rare, and the biggest high flyers like Steamboat and Savage and Dynamite kid weren't doing anything that would be get "This is awesome" chants today. Savage had a double axe handle and the elbow drop from the top. Steamboat had the cross body, Dynamite had the flying headbutt (Which turned out to be intensely dangerous.
The rest of the workers, the technical guys had a more deliberate pace, lots of punches kicks, lock up moves to the mat occasional drop kicks.
Hell, the sleeper was the deadliest move in Stampede and sold incredibly well.
But the audiences forced the evolution to the high risk stuff. Then ECW came along and to this day workers still emulate that incredibly dangerous risk taking style. I've always said that audience demands were going to lead to injuries and eventually death.
But I blame the trainers and even the workers. The fundamentals of how to tell a story in the ring, I don't think they're being taught anymore. Instead matches go 10,000 miles an hour, with high risk moves when they're not necessary. I mean wrestlers in interviews can talk all they want about building stories, but that focuses is on promo's and non match moments. In match, there's very few that understand ring psychology. People and especially younger workers are getting hurt because they're trained to do big moves when they're not needed. They're not trained to pause and bring the audience in, they're not trained on pacing. And they're not trained to not do stupid things.
The other people that are responsible and should know better are the veterans who are writers or producers or whatever who's questions should be framed around "Why are you doing this", "Does this advance the story line", and are "You stupid".
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My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
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One thing I will say - the fans may demand more high-flying moves, but I actually place the blame for this on the promoters and bookers. Modern promoters and bookers are defaulting to high-flying moves and spot-fests for the ticket sales and clicks.
There is definitely an absence of skillsets today on ring psychology, pacing, realistic selling, and story-driven move sequences. Bookers and promoters just don't seem to want to put those kind of matches on regularly, even though a double axe-handle or a suplex can be huge moves that change momentum. The audience needs to get invested in the match story.
Some of the NJPW matches among and between Omega/Naito/Okada/Tanahashi over the last 10 years really captured that you don't need to be stuntmen for every waking minute in a match. Even some of those 90's matches between Austin/Hart/Michaels/Razor had some of the best story-telling and pacing that made you invested as a fan.
It's why I find NXT completely unwatchable, and some of the people in AEW like Guevara; being a spot monkey and constantly flying off the turnbuckle and jumping over the ropes has diminishing returns.
And selling, oh god selling. It's atrocious today. I'm on Bret Hart's side on this one. I know he's a crank, but damn if he wasn't right about the lost art of selling.
I swear, patience and build that you saw in classic wrestling matches is gone as we know it. WWE and AEW just don't cater to that kind of match anymore (although Swerve and Hangman II really captured that IMO).
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Sammy Guevara is dangerous in the ring, as are many in AEW. Something really needs to be done about it. Poor Jeff, he wasn't even the one taking the jump and hurting himself this time.
I'll be honest, before I even heard/saw anything, my first thought was "Sammy was probably involved."
In the meantime I can't wait for Takesh*ta vs. Osprey. It could easily be match of the year. No story or build up, which is unfortunate, but it should be a fantastic match. Too bad Take will likely take the loss since it's Osprey's debut with AEW.
If only Tony could get out of his own way and be completely hands off his own company could go somewhere. I also found it funny that they had a "Thank you Tony" celebration for the 200th episode of Dynamite. WWE thanks the fans at every opportunity they have, Tony thanks Tony lol.
One thing I will say - the fans may demand more high-flying moves, but I actually place the blame for this on the promoters and bookers. Modern promoters and bookers are defaulting to high-flying moves and spot-fests for the ticket sales and clicks.
There is definitely an absence of skillsets today on ring psychology, pacing, realistic selling, and story-driven move sequences. Bookers and promoters just don't seem to want to put those kind of matches on regularly, even though a double axe-handle or a suplex can be huge moves that change momentum. The audience needs to get invested in the match story.
Some of the NJPW matches among and between Omega/Naito/Okada/Tanahashi over the last 10 years really captured that you don't need to be stuntmen for every waking minute in a match. Even some of those 90's matches between Austin/Hart/Michaels/Razor had some of the best story-telling and pacing that made you invested as a fan.
It's why I find NXT completely unwatchable, and some of the people in AEW like Guevara; being a spot monkey and constantly flying off the turnbuckle and jumping over the ropes has diminishing returns.
And selling, oh god selling. It's atrocious today. I'm on Bret Hart's side on this one. I know he's a crank, but damn if he wasn't right about the lost art of selling.
I swear, patience and build that you saw in classic wrestling matches is gone as we know it. WWE and AEW just don't cater to that kind of match anymore (although Swerve and Hangman II really captured that IMO).
Its funny, I've watched a lot of vintage matches.
I look at things like this
1. In Stampede Wrestling the Sleeper was promoted as the most dangerous move in wrestling. It cut off blood to the brain. So after a match it was up to the winning wrestler to wake up the losing wrestler. So the faces, would sit up their opponent, rub their shoulders and then slap them squarely in the back and the wrestler would wake up. Even the heels for the most part would wake them up by kicking them square in the back. If you wanted to be a psycho heel you'd stand there and laugh and watch your opponent slowly dying on the mat before the ref would jump in and wake them up.
2) I got back to the Shawn Michael's Flair match. While there were some high flying moves, it was based in the emotion. And Shawn mouthing I'm sorry, I love you before kicking Flair's head off was a master class in story telling.
3) Kevin Nash versus Bret Hart when Hart took back the belt. There was nothing flashy about that match. But Hart took a beating, it was the whole chop the tree down match. Then Nash was setting up Hart for the power bomb and Hart collapsed. Nash sat there looking like he didn't want to do it and showed compassion and Hart rolled him up for the win, then Nash snapped and did the instant heal turn.
4) A simple arm drag. 123 kid versus Hart the veteran. Kid gives him an arm drag and Hart sits up and has that look on his face like damn, I didn't expect that, and it made kid look lime a million bucks without having to jump off of the top rope and rotate 7 times to the floor.
And yeah, its not only the promoters and producers, but the workers themselves that are deciding to do this stuff.
__________________
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
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Yeah, it's weird. You'd almost feel like NXT was a developmental territory or something with all the development related mistakes that happen and lead to injuries.
AEW fans and always using NXT as their comparable when a talent does something stupid seem to forget the purpose of NXT.
Sure, but the promoters are the ones who sells the audience on expectations based on the card they build and the bookers book accordingly. If you book people taking high risk moves, you expect high risk moves. And now it's become baseline to just do this for the clicks and socials.
I don't think a match of Carmelo Hayes vs. Dragon Lee would be received by fans well if it was all arm drags and sleeperholds. And I don't think Michaels would allow at 35 minute storytelling extravaganza.
Sure the wrestlers have some degree of match agenda, but the bookers are the ones ultimately responsible for how they want the storylines to develop and the card to play out, including the style of wrestling they want to exhibit.
Yeah, it's weird. You'd almost feel like NXT was a developmental territory or something with all the development related mistakes that happen and lead to injuries.
AEW fans and always using NXT as their comparable when a talent does something stupid seem to forget the purpose of NXT.
NXT is not developmental in the same way it once was. They constantly send veterans down to work with the younger talent to boost ratings, and you're not moving up the card unless you're not green. They're also being pumped as their own brand with their own audience, and their own niche.
Why do you think Jade Cargill hasn't even done a stint in NXT or had a single match yet? Why would indie darlings like Dragon Lee have to be in NXT?
It's development for character work. The Performance Center is for training.
NXT is not developmental in the same way it once was. They constantly send veterans down to work with the younger talent to boost ratings, and you're not moving up the card unless you're not green. They're also being pumped as their own brand with their own audience, and their own niche.
Why do you think Jade Cargill hasn't even done a stint in NXT or had a single match yet? Why would indie darlings like Dragon Lee have to be in NXT?
It's development for character work. The Performance Center is for training.
It is still very much so a developmental territory. The use of veterans is both a ratings bump and a chance to let new talent who are showing a lot promise get work with industry veterans. It being pumped as its own brand and own niche is like trying to say things like the WHL or AHL aren't developmental leagues because they have their own audience and niche or veteran players playing in them.
Jade Cargill is doing an extended stint at the performance center, not sure what you're talking about. Talking about her not appearing on NXT tv as if that means NXT isn't part of the performance center and developmental system. You could make the case the AEW misused and developed her so poorly that WWE doesn't even trust her to work on their developmental program.
Indy darlings still have to learn to work the WWE style. You also need to have people at the top end of their development to show what people are working towards as well has help in the development as those who are further behind. But when Indy darlings come in, ready to work a WWE style and don't need that extra seasoning they go straight into the main card.
It's just not a great comparison for AEW/ROH to justify mistakes and bad decisions. You expect learning lessons from a developmental territory. You shouldn't expect that from arguably the second biggest (certainly the second most important) promotion in the world.
You're missing the point. NXT is not the developmental right of passage it once was. The Performance Center is the developmental area for WWE talent. This is why Jade is going there and not to NXT to refine her skills - she's going straight to the main roster.
You can use that to condemn her training in AEW (which is ridiculous because she was being trained by Bryan Danielson), but NXT is not this panacea of development. It is a stomping ground for younger wrestlers who are past the training stage of their wrestling career and are into character development. They don't use NXT on Tuesday Nights to practice their wrestling skills - that's for the already trained. They have an audience, they have a niche, and they have their own storylines.
I mean sure, you could say that's still development, but it's not development in the way you are thinking of NXT historically, which was what NXT Black and Gold was often for their untelevised events and opening matches.
I'm not saying AEW makes good decisions all the time. I'm saying NXT is not this excuse of a brand to allow for injuries to occur because of green talent (which they are not).
The Performance Center is a part of NXT. Danielson training her doesn't change the fact she came to WWE in a state of not being able to work a proper match. Not every teacher meshes with every student. Not every amazing world class talent is a good teacher. Not every student, no matter how naturally gifted, is good at learning no matter how good the lessons are. AEW botched her development. It may not be for any one particular reason, but it happened.
Developmental territories have TV. Developmental territories have story lines. Part of development is learning to work for a camera, not just a crowd. Part of development is learning to work an angle. Part of development is working in front of fans. There are still non-televised matches. There are still developmental dark matches. That Shawn Michaels and Paul Levesque treat it as a labour of love and put extra work into trying to make it look good, does not change what it is.
Saying that it having TV with storylines and crowds means it's not a developmental territory anymore is some silly ####. That you're saying it to justify AEW having the same track record in relation to avoidable injuries caused by a lack of in-ring safety is some sillier ####.
AEW has a problem. It's not a new problem. It should not have this problem.
