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Old 02-15-2024, 11:42 AM   #21361
Paulie Walnuts
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I agree that Holtz or Mercer plus a first and prospect is an overpay for Markstrom alone but if we are adding retention it seems ok to me.

I would personally be upset if our team was the one trading that package for a goalie.
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Old 02-15-2024, 11:42 AM   #21362
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I take Holtz and run. Coronato is likely a third line player who can contribute on the PP IMO. Smallish and is not great defensively. Shelter him and you probably have a guy that will score you 20-25 with the right matchups. Holtz will be better in all situations.
Have you watched Holtz? He is never going to be a 200 foot player. Offensively they are the same player.
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Old 02-15-2024, 11:42 AM   #21363
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I’d drive Markstrom to New Jersey if he could be traded at 50% for Mercer alone. I think there’s a pretty low likelihood that Mercer is on the table unless the Flames are adding a decent piece.
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Old 02-15-2024, 11:43 AM   #21364
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If they want Hanifin with Markstrom we can get both easily imo.
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Old 02-15-2024, 11:43 AM   #21365
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I consider both Markstrom and Saros to have the same reputation as elite goalies, here is what SN proposes Saros nets from NJ. So I don't think our expectations are out of wack. Also, I don't like that Hanifin proposal.
https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article...ig-for-goalie/
Terrible proposal for Noah.

McSN has always been out to lunch though.
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Old 02-15-2024, 11:43 AM   #21366
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draft positioning.

Markstrom is actively costing the Flames draft position.
You've moved a lot on this topic!
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Old 02-15-2024, 11:43 AM   #21367
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F5 f5 f5
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Old 02-15-2024, 11:44 AM   #21368
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I know this is greedy but could the Flames get Mercer and Holtz if they add to Markstrom? Something like Markstrom+Mangiapane (35% retained in both) it would Bring both players under $4M and 1 extra year for Mangi and 2 for Marky.

Getting 2 22 year old former first rounders would be a nice way to retool
I think you only get both if Hanifin is going the other way
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Old 02-15-2024, 11:44 AM   #21369
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I'd rather take Vanacek than retain on Markstrom, if it's a choice.
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Old 02-15-2024, 11:44 AM   #21370
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Holtz is younger than Zary and has three less points than him on the year. Sure, he's played 9 more games but he's also averaging under 12 minutes a night, and isn't shooting 22.2% on the year.

If roles were reversed none of you would be saying Zary and a 1st was an underpayment for a 34 year old netminder making 6 million a season.

I maintain that Mercer ++ is an absolute pipedream unless we are retaining half and eating Vanecek's deal, but even then it's a stretch.
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Old 02-15-2024, 11:45 AM   #21371
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Can we get a CPuck correspondent to YYC to monitor all Newark outgoing flights?
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Old 02-15-2024, 11:45 AM   #21372
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The Flames don't think this way, and I guarantee you this isn't a talking point for management in their meetings.

It's about the assets they can extract, first and foremost.
It’s one of those things you can’t say out loud, but guaranteed Conroy is thinking it.

If they want this rebuild to be faster, having a four 1st round picks goes a long way to doing that.

Just don’t #### them up.

Feaster went 1/3 in 2013 - Monahan, Poirier, Klimchuk.

He could have taken Theodore and Hartman.

Having those 1sts completely bust out set them back as much as anything.

Walk away from this draft with a top-10 centre plus two or three other contributing NHLers and 2027 isn’t an unreasonable target for a quality team.
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Old 02-15-2024, 11:45 AM   #21373
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I’d drive Markstrom to New Jersey if he could be traded at 50% for Mercer alone. I think there’s a pretty low likelihood that Mercer is on the table unless the Flames are adding a decent piece.
If the Flames are this deep in talks with the Devils and knowing how much they have liked Mercer I would be shocked if he is not part of the trade. Dawson Mercer is a good young player but people talk about him on here like his value is Bedard or something. He should become a top 6 C but nothing is guaranteed there. His floor is probably a 3rd line C.
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Old 02-15-2024, 11:46 AM   #21374
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts View Post
I agree that Holtz or Mercer plus a first and prospect is an overpay for Markstrom alone but if we are adding retention it seems ok to me.

I would personally be upset if our team was the one trading that package for a goalie.
I'm only learning this year how highly valued salary retention is around the league. The way conroy talked about the importance of retention/non-retention makes it sound almost like tacking on a 1st or 2nd.
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Old 02-15-2024, 11:46 AM   #21375
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Terrible proposal for Noah.

McSN has always been out to lunch though.
Guy must be a Sharks fan
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Old 02-15-2024, 11:46 AM   #21376
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I'm calling it now

To Calgary:
Mercer, 2024 1st round pick (top 10 protected), 2025 2nd round pick, B level prospect & roster player/cap dump,

To NJ:
Markstrom ($1.5M-$2M retained)
That would be a home run. Going into the 2024 draft with 3 1st rounders (at least) plus Mercer is a huge boost to any retool/rebuild.
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Old 02-15-2024, 11:47 AM   #21377
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I doubt the Flames will retain 50% on Markstrom.

I bet the Flames offered retaining $1 million per season ($3 million total) and the Devils wanted $3 million per season ($9 million total). IMO, that $9 million total retention should be worth two first round picks considering what Monahan cost the Flames and also the fact that Markstrom is actually good.

A deal probably gets done with retention somewhere in between.
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Old 02-15-2024, 11:47 AM   #21378
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Have you watched Holtz? He is never going to be a 200 foot player. Offensively they are the same player.
This is kinda why he's in the doghouse.

What is mind bottling for me, is Sergey Brylin is on the coaching staff. Dude was as solid a two way forward as the Devils have had. I can't explain why he can't get through to Holtz.
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Old 02-15-2024, 11:48 AM   #21379
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If the Flames are this deep in talks with the Devils and knowing how much they have liked Mercer I would be shocked if he is not part of the trade. Dawson Mercer is a good young player but people talk about him on here like his value is Bedard or something. He should become a top 6 C but nothing is guaranteed there. His floor is probably a 3rd line C.
Based on his numbers alone is already a 2/3 C
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Old 02-15-2024, 11:48 AM   #21380
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I know this is greedy but could the Flames get Mercer and Holtz if they add to Markstrom? Something like Markstrom+Mangiapane (35% retained in both) it would Bring both players under $4M and 1 extra year for Mangi and 2 for Marky.

Getting 2 22 year old former first rounders would be a nice way to retool
I want Mercer as much as the next guy. That said do you think mangi at 35% retained moves the needle? I will admit that I’m very low on mangi and I think the way he’s playing now is not a low but the norm
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