Calgary Openings, Closings, and Developments

[Slava]

Kensington was cooler when the Snowboard Shop was still a thing. That sounds like the real "back in the day" to me though!

[DownInFlames]

The back streets are already blocked to traffic. Those residents aren’t going to allow that to be reversed.

There’s more deliveries in the area than you might realize. It’s a busy area for Door Dash. I’m there often going to the aforementioned lawyers and other stores.

I’m not talking about office workers as much as their clients, specifically for lawyers and doctors.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

There's back streets and alleys, they should work fine. Do trucks and delivery vehicles currently clog up 10th or Kensington Road right now?

Maybe start the cut-off at Gladstone Road so trucks can get into the Safeway, which is an anchor retail establishment for the area.

And if you're using office workers in Kensington as a counterpoint, I'd like to know how many office workers there are in Kensington per capita and what would suggest they have prioritized car necessities.

Outside of liking car-free areas, what’s the actual case for cutting off all traffic on Kensington and 10th? I think you need to start there.

I think any case you might make can be achieved by cutting off traffic to Kensington Cres and the cut out streets, and removing street parking. I don’t see a benefit to removing all traffic, and certainly not one that overcomes the cost throughout the area. It would create an insane mess.

Kensington is just not an appropriate area for that approach. It doesn’t allow for it at all.

[Fuzz]

I don't even like the idea of removing street parking on 10th. There isn't a lot of it, but I've used it many times while I'm on my way somewhere, but want to stop quickly to buy something. Without that convenience I may just not visit those stores. So it's not always a win. Plus they allow for an increase of volume when it is really needed, rush hour. Without those extra lanes it would back up a lot(probably all the way back into downtown on the PM rush).

[Ozy_Flame]

Either do this in full, or don't do it at all. Kensington is a pedestrian-first experience for Calgary. Cars just happen to go through it. Is the right answer to acquiesce to cars for a dense high street area that continues to densify with more foot traffic?

Here's what I would ask - would merchants get more business with a no-cars zone? What would increased foot traffic look like for the area?

I'm sure the Kensington BIA would have some opinions on this.

And coincidentally, Kensington Market in Toronto is going through the same discussion. If anyone has been there, there's even more of a case for no-cars. It just makes sense to make it pedestrian-only. The opposition to it is that the city is proposing not the entire area be car-free; there would be shared streets and really doesn't tackle their 'Safe Streets' policy in its entirety.

Canadian (and American) cities are addicted to car culture. Bold moves need to be made, including the re-routing of traffic and public infrastructure where needed.

[Fuzz]

Cool, so not actually addressing any concerns brought up. "Be Bold" is just yelling louder.


Kensington road is one thing, there are lots of E-W routes, but 10th? Nope, non-starter. Bad idea.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I don't even like the idea of removing street parking on 10th. There isn't a lot of it, but I've used it many times while I'm on my way somewhere, but want to stop quickly to buy something. Without that convenience I may just not visit those stores. So it's not always a win. Plus they allow for an increase of volume when it is really needed, rush hour. Without those extra lanes it would back up a lot(probably all the way back into downtown on the PM rush).

I think with a Platform-like parkade it’s feasible.

10th is definitely the no-bueno one for messing with too much. It’s too important of a feeder/exit and there are too few existing options surrounding it.

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Either do this in full, or don't do it at all.

I’d prefer to just do it correctly, and I don’t think either “full” or “not at all” meets that criteria.

There’s the Safeway, sure, there’s also a school, apartments/condos, a train station, and a bunch of businesses that depends on Kensington and/or 10th for access. It’s not like other areas where there is a bunch of room to divert traffic, it’s packed tight as it is.

Even if you wanted to just close Kensington between 12th and 10th, that has some fairly major ramifications.

At that point you’re not just talking about closing a road, you’re talking about demolishing buildings to reimagine the entire area.

Do we really want to tear down Kensington to rebuild 3 blocks that are slightly easier to walk around? I can’t see why.

[topfiverecords]

The real solution is to put all you outsiders underground in a tunnel and leave the surface level for us jaywalking latte sipping hippies.

[Johnny Makarov]

Kensington needs Druh Farrell back!

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

There’s the Safeway, sure, there’s also a school, apartments/condos, a train station, and a bunch of businesses that depends on Kensington and/or 10th for access. It’s not like other areas where there is a bunch of room to divert traffic, it’s packed tight as it is.

Even if you wanted to just close Kensington between 12th and 10th, that has some fairly major ramifications.

For 10th street:
- Train access right there less than two blocks away for all affected areas.
- Multiple pedestrian paths exist already provide walking access to bus stations.
- multiple exit points for residents through Kensington and Sunnyside.
- no businesses alongside 10th ave outside of Safeway have the need for huge delivery trucks. alley access from 3rd ave and from 9A street could be sufficient here. Deliveries already are being made this way to stores with back-door access.

People are also choosing to live on these arteries for the urban access. It would stand to reason more access via pedestrian means isn't going to waffle their needs here, particularly as the more modern developments have access to the side streets.

And don't the bulk of people already commute in from the remote suburbs by using more major roads like 14th, Crowchild, Bow Trail, and Edmonton Trail? Has 10th st become so congested it's beyond designed capacity?

Honestly, there's worse neighborhoods to remove car access (like Inglewood). How backed up is Kensington traffic now that Center street, 14th, or Crowchild couldn't be an option?

I just don't get the resistance to an overhaul. Piecemeal changes make side trimmings that don't move the needle IMO.

[Sr. Mints]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Sorry, "back in the day" while referencing Call of Duty, released in 2003? ####in' youngins...now I'm wondering if I am one of the "hippies' you referenced hanging out at The Roastarie.

Yeah I chuckled. I was thinking more like lining up to pick up my Death of Superman comics when I was ~12

[Muta]

Originally Posted by Sr. Mints

Yeah I chuckled. I was thinking more like lining up to pick up my Death of Superman comics when I was ~12

Probably should have said 'uni students' since I'm now 40, but kids sounded more fun. Should've expected the regular CP generals to jump on that I guess, my bad. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by Muta

https://qpengage.ca/project/kensington/

Here you go. There's more preliminary renderings on that page too. I wouldn't say this design is official at all though, but the massing solution of the building is quite interesting (which is required for the re-zoning). There's likely still LOTS of design work to do now from this point on; I wouldn't read too much into the design yet.

LOL, the reddit thread on the fire has a lot of interesting things to say about the Terrigno family...

The site is owned by the Terrigno family. The Terrignos immigrated from Italy and decided to set down their roots in Kensington. The family has been part of community for the past thirty years, with three generations currently living in Kensington. The family business over the past twenty years has developed commercial real estate, industrial, single family and recently entered the multi-family segment within the Calgary market. The Terrignos continue their commitment to invest in the community they live in and contribute towards the vibrancy of Kensington.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

For 10th street:
- Train access right there less than two blocks away for all affected areas.
- Multiple pedestrian paths exist already provide walking access to bus stations.
- multiple exit points for residents through Kensington and Sunnyside.
- no businesses alongside 10th ave outside of Safeway have the need for huge delivery trucks. alley access from 3rd ave and from 9A street could be sufficient here. Deliveries already are being made this way to stores with back-door access.

People are also choosing to live on these arteries for the urban access. It would stand to reason more access via pedestrian means isn't going to waffle their needs here, particularly as the more modern developments have access to the side streets.

And don't the bulk of people already commute in from the remote suburbs by using more major roads like 14th, Crowchild, Bow Trail, and Edmonton Trail? Has 10th st become so congested it's beyond designed capacity?

Honestly, there's worse neighborhoods to remove car access (like Inglewood). How backed up is Kensington traffic now that Center street, 14th, or Crowchild couldn't be an option?

I just don't get the resistance to an overhaul. Piecemeal changes make side trimmings that don't move the needle IMO.

It's not "remote suburbs" necessarily, but it does serve citizens in the area south of JLB. And ya, 10th is very busy for traffic. So is 14th and Centre.

Honestly I don't really understand this part of urban design where people want to take vital connections and just get rid of them for...reasons, that then force this traffic to much longer routes causing more congestion and far more pollution.

Reminds me of the stupidity of not having the Peace Bridge also cross Memorial. They could have gotten rid of an at grade crossing, but now we have 2 sets of lights instead of none. How that helps the climate change issue is beyond me. I feel shame every time I have to hit the beg button to cross Memorial there, and stop 100 vehicles.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

The site is owned by the Terrigno family. The Terrignos immigrated from Italy and decided to set down their roots in Kensington. The family has been part of community for the past thirty years, with three generations currently living in Kensington. The family business over the past twenty years has developed commercial real estate, industrial, single family and recently entered the multi-family segment within the Calgary market. The Terrignos continue their commitment to invest in the community they live in and contribute towards the vibrancy of Kensington.

Isn't he part of that stable of conservatives that includes Craig Chandler, Jonathan Denis and Dan McLean?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

For 10th street:
- Train access right there less than two blocks away for all affected areas.
- Multiple pedestrian paths exist already provide walking access to bus stations.
- multiple exit points for residents through Kensington and Sunnyside.
- no businesses alongside 10th ave outside of Safeway have the need for huge delivery trucks. alley access from 3rd ave and from 9A street could be sufficient here. Deliveries already are being made this way to stores with back-door access.

People are also choosing to live on these arteries for the urban access. It would stand to reason more access via pedestrian means isn't going to waffle their needs here, particularly as the more modern developments have access to the side streets.

And don't the bulk of people already commute in from the remote suburbs by using more major roads like 14th, Crowchild, Bow Trail, and Edmonton Trail? Has 10th st become so congested it's beyond designed capacity?

Honestly, there's worse neighborhoods to remove car access (like Inglewood). How backed up is Kensington traffic now that Center street, 14th, or Crowchild couldn't be an option?

I just don't get the resistance to an overhaul. Piecemeal changes make side trimmings that don't move the needle IMO.

You’re not proposing an overhaul, though.As I said, to make your idea work, you would actually need to change far, far more than closing a road or two. You’re proposing a different “piecemeal change” so why would it move the needle either?

How do you propose someone gets to the school, or the office buildings, or their condos, or really any of the buildings along Kensington, with Kensington and 10th closed?

Where are they parking? How far are they walking?

[Ozy_Flame]

They use their feet on 10th street. Or their bikes, or micro transit options. Use side streets and alleyways to leave/come in with your car. No business is big enough on 10th needing huge delivery trucks; they can usually fit on the adjacent alleys and roads. Most business down 10th get their deliveries through the back door anyways.

Doesn't Calgary allow scooters and bike shares? Not even Toronto has that much available.

People can continue to park where they currently park. All 10th ave parking lots would either have to remove access or change access to an adjacent road. Set up new parking somewhere close to 10th and 5th ave. Encourage use of Riley Park parking for more walkability through non-buildilng public assets.

It's really not that hard to envision movement of people through this area. And closing off 10th street is not piece meal at all; closing Kensington Crescent is piece meal. It does nothing to move the needle.

[Wormius]

What is this hypothetical scenario being proposed supposed to solve or fix or make better?

I think a better use of time/effort/money would be to fix all of the existing discontinuities in the pathway system that make it difficult to get around.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Wormius

What is this hypothetical scenario being proposed supposed to solve or fix or make better?

I think a better use of time/effort/money would be to fix all of the existing discontinuities in the pathway system that make it difficult to get around.

Someone who doesn’t live here’s ideal layout of a community he’s never in with roads he never uses.

I’m all for pedestrian-only areas where they make sense, but when your solution to school drop off is to park and walk for 15 minutes then it feels like it’s kind of a pointless conversation.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Wormius

What is this hypothetical scenario being proposed supposed to solve or fix or make better?

Pedestrians wouldn't have to pass within a foot or two of each other. They could do pirouettes down the middle of the road.