[Rumour] Friedman: Devils and Flames have had legit discussions about Markstrom

[CSharp]

If it takes a full salary retention to get 1 first rounder and a blue chip prospect at center position, take it.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by CSharp

If it takes a full salary retention to get 1 first rounder and a blue chip prospect at center position, take it.

I think it’s more likely the Devils are asking for full retention for a blue chip prospect alone.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

If it was run like a business it would have moved to Houston (or similar large US market) a long time ago.

Yes. THIS.

The idea that Edwards has been dumping money into this team every year just in hopes of seeing a profit at the end of each season is nonsense.

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[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Yes. THIS.

The idea that Edwards has been dumping money into this team every year just in hopes of seeing a profit at the end of each season is nonsense.

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The "flames" own most of the calgary sports landscape. There are a lot of economic benefits to that kind of control, and I'd be very surprised if it was mismanaged enough to be a losing prospect.

The Flames and all of the tributaries are good leverage for a lot of business shenanigans.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by TOfan

I think it’s more likely the Devils are asking for full retention for a blue chip prospect alone.

Sure, if it’s Nemec.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Yes. THIS.

The idea that Edwards has been dumping money into this team every year just in hopes of seeing a profit at the end of each season is nonsense.

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The operating income for the Flames is available online if you search it. Since 2006, the Flames have rarely lost money, but most of their seasons, the profits are meaningless (a few million dollars) with a handful of seasons making a solid profit.

Problem is the trade off for any business person. If you were to look at the average return on investment for the ownership group when you see the profits vs what it cost to operate (so their investment in the club) it’s not worth it. Edward’s would be far better off putting the money he puts into the Flames elsewhere if he’s in it to make money. People seem to think making any money on the Flames means profit, they fail to recognize that the actual decision on any business a could I make more investing this elsewhere.

Profit is not why Edward’s does this. I won’t pretend to know why he does. Some sort of tax break, ego, hobby or he wants to give back to Calgary, something else, combo of the former? What I do know is investing your money in the “Flames” is not your best investment opportunity, in fact it appears to have sucked historically. If I was given the opportunities to invest my measly RRSP accounts in the Flames I wouldn’t, cause the return would have working until I’m dead.

[Saqe]

The value of nhl franchises has exploded during the years. There's the profit.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

The operating income for the Flames is available online if you search it. Since 2006, the Flames have rarely lost money, but most of their seasons, the profits are meaningless (a few million dollars) with a handful of seasons making a solid profit.

Problem is the trade off for any business person. If you were to look at the average return on investment for the ownership group when you see the profits vs what it cost to operate (so their investment in the club) it’s not worth it. Edward’s would be far better off putting the money he puts into the Flames elsewhere if he’s in it to make money. People seem to think making any money on the Flames means profit, they fail to recognize that the actual decision on any business a could I make more investing this elsewhere.

Profit is not why Edward’s does this. I won’t pretend to know why he does. Some sort of tax break, ego, hobby or he wants to give back to Calgary, something else, combo of the former? What I do know is investing your money in the “Flames” is not your best investment opportunity, in fact it appears to have sucked historically. If I was given the opportunities to invest my measly RRSP accounts in the Flames I wouldn’t, cause the return would have working until I’m dead.

I definitely agree with everything you wrote, especially as I know that it comes as the argument against 'playoff revenue' being the most important component side of the argument. I believe that Edwards wants to win a cup. Full-stop. I imagine all the owners do.


However, the rise of valuation of sports teams in general makes the Flames an EXCELLENT investment. It won't be too long before the Flames themselves are worth a billion dollars. That's quite a nice return in itself.

[Shazam]

Not until the gain is realized.

[Poe969]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Now tell me what it looks like with no Markstrom, Tanev, Coleman, Mangiapane, or Hanifin this year.....Still "100X more fun"?....because that is the suggestion.

People would be staying away in droves.

Yes changes were/are needed. No question and I fully agree the team looks refreshed.

This club will suffer greatly when they lose their whole second pairing in the next couple weeks as it is....now add in moving the Vezina level G, top goal scorer and 88 on top that.

They will be replaced by a small unproven NHL guy in net, Matt Coronato who has shown he is not yet ready, and....im not even sure...Ben Jones maybe? And on the back end Kuznetsov and Solovyov who also arent ready?

Then ask your customers to lay down anywhere from 4K to 100's of K for tickets next year.

Would you pay to watch that?

Never mind the message you are sending your current group by sending the guys that helped get them here....away.

Its just really bad business all around.

It's easier to sell hope than it is to keep shining a piece of crap roster and trying to sell "just get in and anything can happen"

They've been doing ok at selling tickets with a bad team, why would that change if they had new players a d young promising players.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Poe969

It's easier to sell hope than it is to keep shining a piece of crap roster and trying to sell "just get in and anything can happen"



They've been doing ok at selling tickets with a bad team, why would that change if they had new players a d young promising players.

Selling to whom, though? Most fans aren't like you and me, or anyone else on this board. Most fans who buy tickets to games buy them to see the team win. When the team isn't winning—regardless of however many promising young players they have on the ice—they're going to struggle more to sell tickets.

I don't live in Calgary, but I have friends who moved just recently from Vancouver, and they are pretty happy about how easy it is to get Flames game-day tickets right now.

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[Poe969]

This has been an average at best team most years, for the past 20 years. Once in a while, they'd be decent or even good, but for the most part they've been....meh.

If they commit to a direction, and are actually honest about it, it may suck for a year or so but if they get a really good young player because of that, things will improve.

They don't have a good team, so they're not selling lots of tickets. The best way to get a good team is to draft good players. To draft good players, you need to do poorly. If you do poorly, you won't sell lots of tickets. They want to get better so they can sell lots of tickets, but they don't want to do poorly in order to get better. They want to be just good enough to keep fans interested so they buy tickets, but they'll never really improve that way.

The Flames are in a tough spot because for so long, they've just tried to be good enough and now people are tired of it. They need to make a choice, be bad to get better which would result in some bad times at the gate or just keep trying to be good enough and risk people losing interest in a team going nowhere

[Buzzard]

Well said, pretty much sums her up.

[dammage79]

I think the flames organizatio are just bad at identifying team performance cycles. Always too late to restructure the roster.Theyre a reactive group as opposed to a proactive group.

Which is why this Conroy approach is a breath of fresh air. It's a restructure on the fly. Something we haven't seen with the Flames.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Now tell me what it looks like with no Markstrom, Tanev, Coleman, Mangiapane, or Hanifin this year.....Still "100X more fun"?....because that is the suggestion.

People would be staying away in droves.

Yes changes were/are needed. No question and I fully agree the team looks refreshed.

This club will suffer greatly when they lose their whole second pairing in the next couple weeks as it is....now add in moving the Vezina level G, top goal scorer and 88 on top that.

They will be replaced by a small unproven NHL guy in net, Matt Coronato who has shown he is not yet ready, and....im not even sure...Ben Jones maybe? And on the back end Kuznetsov and Solovyov who also arent ready?

Then ask your customers to lay down anywhere from 4K to 100's of K for tickets next year.

Would you pay to watch that?

Never mind the message you are sending your current group by sending the guys that helped get them here....away.

Its just really bad business all around.

I agree with this. People want to trade away players like candy but they don't realize we could end up sinking the ship. You need veteran guys on the team, they ad stability. On one hand we've had a whole bunch of players talking about wanting to leave, and most of them have left already and then you have Markstrom, and he talks about how wonderful it is to play here but everybody wants to trade him. Guys like Markstrom attract other decent players. I think we're making a mistake if we gut the team because we could end up with an in-experienced group. Let's just say this group falls on hard times and has a hard time winning then who are we going to trade? We could end up making things a lot worse we are not careful.

I don't mean to take away from the business aspect of it but that's
just as important too.

I think the team needs to do things in moderation but not gut the team.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

I agree with this. People want to trade away players like candy but they don't realize we could end up sinking the ship. You need veteran guys on the team, they ad stability. On one hand we've had a whole bunch of players talking about wanting to leave, and most of them have left already and then you have Markstrom, and he talks about how wonderful it is to play here but everybody wants to trade him. Guys like Markstrom attract other decent players. I think we're making a mistake if we gut the team because we could end up with an in-experienced group. Let's just say this group falls on hard times and has a hard time winning then who are we going to trade? We could end up making things a lot worse we are not careful.

I don't mean to take away from the business aspect of it but that's
just as important too.

I think the team needs to do things in moderation but not gut the team.

Trading away the non-UFAs in my opinion demands a complete overpay. Don’t see any reason to get rid of any of the non UFAs because outside of Huberdeau none of them are overpaid and they create a good environment for young players to enter the NHL into. If Jersey blows their brains out and wants Markstrom then sure move him. Otherwise I don’t see the rush.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Yes. THIS.

The idea that Edwards has been dumping money into this team every year just in hopes of seeing a profit at the end of each season is nonsense.

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Profit might not be his his yearly goal, but it seems like being in the black is more important than a championship. It does seem like he is a bit risk averse to losing now to gain later. Sometimes, you need to lose money to grow a business, and it does seem like he isn't overly eager to do that. Of course there is no guarantee it pays off, but if you don't try, you likely get nothing more than average results.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Poe969

This has been an average at best team most years, for the past 20 years. Once in a while, they'd be decent or even good, but for the most part they've been....meh.

If they commit to a direction, and are actually honest about it, it may suck for a year or so but if they get a really good young player because of that, things will improve.

They don't have a good team, so they're not selling lots of tickets. The best way to get a good team is to draft good players. To draft good players, you need to do poorly. If you do poorly, you won't sell lots of tickets. They want to get better so they can sell lots of tickets, but they don't want to do poorly in order to get better. They want to be just good enough to keep fans interested so they buy tickets, but they'll never really improve that way.

The Flames are in a tough spot because for so long, they've just tried to be good enough and now people are tired of it. They need to make a choice, be bad to get better which would result in some bad times at the gate or just keep trying to be good enough and risk people losing interest in a team going nowhere

Ya I don't buy the narrative that people won't show up. The team is bad with no high end prospects, no superstars, and people are still interested. A lot of people just go to games as something to do. Events and experiences have never been bigger. This is a Canadian market where hockey is huge and really there are limited things to do for a night out in Calgary.

The actual hockey fans would be easy to sell.

And if you have a few lean years then so be it. That's the cost of becoming elite. When you have a few new superstars to cheer for and a team filled with young up and coming talent, the interest in the team will rejuvenate more than ever.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Saqe

The value of nhl franchises has exploded during the years. There's the profit.

We did this a few months back but he could have purchased ExxonMobil stock instead of the Flames, done nothing, and made more money

This idea that all he cares about is money is ridiculously false

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Ya I don't buy the narrative that people won't show up. The team is bad with no high end prospects, no superstars, and people are still interested. A lot of people just go to games as something to do. Events and experiences have never been bigger. This is a Canadian market where hockey is huge and really there are limited things to do for a night out in Calgary.

The actual hockey fans would be easy to sell.

And if you have a few lean years then so be it. That's the cost of becoming elite. When you have a few new superstars to cheer for and a team filled with young up and coming talent, the interest in the team will rejuvenate more than ever.

Flames have the 2nd best rookie in the league
Dman goal scoring leader
One of the best goalies