[Rumour] Friedman: Devils and Flames have had legit discussions about Markstrom

[Bingo]

Hasn't been said in my skimming but moving Markstrom before next season has a huge impact on that Montreal 1st round pick equation.

You'd think that was in the equation as well.

Flames without Markstrom haven't just won four in a row ... they lose to Chicago, possibly Jersey and maybe hang on in Boston and Long Island.

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Hasn't been said in my skimming but moving Markstrom before next season has a huge impact on that Montreal 1st round pick equation.

You'd think that was in the equation as well.

Flames without Markstrom haven't just won four in a row ... they lose to Chicago, possibly Jersey and maybe hang on in Boston and Long Island.

The only part that it affects is if Montreal choses our pick this year over the chance of a lottery pick next year. Can’t see them doing it.

[Bingo]

Next season the Flames would avoid a lot of head ache if they finished bottom 10.

Markstrom is a huge factor in preventing that.

If you're going to retool and move him anyway may as well do it when the market is hot and avoid the hassle.

[Niemo]

Exactly….. imagine giving away the 12th pick next year when Floridas pick is 24th+.

We absolutely need a top 10 pick next year more than this year even unless somehow we go gangbusters.

[Kipper_3434]

Still can't believe how well Montreal has made out on the Monahan trades. Really hopeful the flames can do something similar in the off season. Maybe if Markstrom gets moved they can afford to take a bunch of assets for Campbell. Unprotected 2027 1st +++?

[Sylvanfan]

Treliving left way too much risk in those conditions for the Flames on that trade. Kent Hughes really took him to the woodshed on that deal. Should have simply been in the year that the Flames get the Pathers pick, they get the lower of the two picks. But Flames were too desperate to sign Kadri...

[really?]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Next season the Flames would avoid a lot of head ache if they finished bottom 10.

Markstrom is a huge factor in preventing that.

If you're going to retool and move him anyway may as well do it when the market is hot and avoid the hassle.

Very good point. The pick Montreal will receive is fluid, not a sunk cost and management is certainly taking this into consideration. There is no guarantee Markstrom is sharp next year, though. We’ve seen a lesser player in some years of his current contract.

My take is Markstrom is interested in changing locales and he has made this known privately. He’s playing like a guy who’s been told, “if you’re looking to move on you need to create a demand for your services.” If this is the case he has fulfilled his obligation, but if he isn’t moved I wouldn’t expect him to replicate this season next year, or maybe even post deadline.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

It sort of is… it’s asset management, and these assets go through huge swings in production and ability, and eventually hit a wall and are worth nothing in a trade.

But, I don't believe their value swings nearly as wildly as fans imagine from week-to-week or month-to-month. I am fairly certain that Markstrom was worth MUCH more than fans believed last season, and probably a lot less than they expect right now.

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[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

There is still Hanifin and Tanev to move, we can look at shoring up the D with those moves. I want Mercer+

Is Sharangovich a long term C solution?

Too early to say, but it’s starting to look that way. Zary wants to play centre too. Either of them could be the next Lindholm. He was an iffy centre we he came here and developed into a premier two way player.

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

It’s not about right now. Our top 2 centers are 33 and 34. This move is about the future, which Mercer would be a huge part of.

The Flames lack any top quality C in their system. Be it through picks or young players, this has got to be THE focus in trade returns.

Kadri is here a lot longer. Backlund has a few more years too. Fourth line centres are easy to find. So they have lots of time to find an elite centre in the draft. Mercer is not that guy, is he? We need another pre injury Monahan, not Mercer. Especially if we bottom out the next 2-3 years as many predict.

[Flamescuprun2018]

So what is a fair but excellent return for Markstrom?

NJ has 9.3M in cap space until Hamilton return. So retention is not required for them to take Markstrom. They can run with Markstrom+Vanacek tandem for this year and next. Their goalie prospects are young and can wait.

I would avoid any retention on him with 2 additional years on his contract.

2024 1st with conditions? Lottery protected in 2024 if NJ misses playoffs, shifts to 2025?

Plus

We need more A-/B+ level prospects on D. Seamus Casey? He is near the top of NJs current prospect list.

Plus

Conditional pick: If they go to EC finals in 2024-2026 we get a 3rd round pick in 2026 which becomes a second if they win Stanley Cup in any of those three years.

Is that enough for us?

1st 2024+ Casey + conditional 2nd/3rd 2026?

Markstrom's term is perfect for NJ. While their top players are still on cheaper RFA/entry level deals.

Would avoid retention and dont want to take back a forward cap dump. No room in our top 9 anyways.

All assuming they won't part with Mercer.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by browntrout

I just don't see the fit for the flames, Mercer is another smallish winger, they need a Hughes or Nemec, a defenceman who can develop and be impactful when the team is ready to compete in 3-5 years from now.

LOL.

Mercer is listed as a centre, and listed at 6'. He is not "smallish" by any stretch. He is squarely in the average range of size for NHL players.


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[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by The Original FFIV

Double shifting 88? Not a good plan

I would go

Coleman backs Mercer
Huby sharky kuzy
Zary kadri Popisil
Mangi Rooney Pelletier

Until you deal 88 for whatever you can

Yes, this. Mercer tracks to be a Backlund replacement so play them together.

And trade Mangiapane.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by really?

My take is Markstrom is interested in changing locales and he has made this known privately. He’s playing like a guy who’s been told, “if you’re looking to move on you need to create a demand for your services.” If this is the case he has fulfilled his obligation, but if he isn’t moved I wouldn’t expect him to replicate this season next year, or maybe even post deadline.

That is a pretty bizarre take.

More likely he's a lot more settled this year and has regained his confidence. After losing it in the Oilers series, plus some of Sutter's extreme motivation tactics he was letting in early and often weak goals every game. This year he's managed to eliminate giving those up. I suspect Markstrom wants to play as well as possible regardless of which team he's playing for

[Heavy Jack]

Originally Posted by really?

My take is Markstrom is interested in changing locales and he has made this known privately. He’s playing like a guy who’s been told, “if you’re looking to move on you need to create a demand for your services.” If this is the case he has fulfilled his obligation, but if he isn’t moved I wouldn’t expect him to replicate this season next year, or maybe even post deadline.

really?

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by really?

My take is Markstrom is interested in changing locales and he has made this known privately. He’s playing like a guy who’s been told, “if you’re looking to move on you need to create a demand for your services.” If this is the case he has fulfilled his obligation, but if he isn’t moved I wouldn’t expect him to replicate this season next year, or maybe even post deadline.

Take people at face value until they give you reason to doubt them. All other concoctions and fantasies are meaningless until then.

Marky was asked the question a few days ago and answered it honestly and professionally. I have no reason to doubt what he said is true.

[Pekkerhead]

I don’t think Marky’s trade value can justify moving him before the deadline. We’re close to a playoff spot and he’s playing lights out. I’d be stunned if they move him now.

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by Pekkerhead

I don’t think Marky’s trade value can justify moving him before the deadline. We’re close to a playoff spot and he’s playing lights out. I’d be stunned if they move him now.

Exactly, Flames are having their cake and eating too.

They are moving UFAs and seemingly getting better.

If they can re-jig this roster on the fly while continuing to win that's great. Losing the second pairing and the starting goalie might be too much for the team to stomach though. They won't engineer a bad year just to get better picks.

There is a lot of value in Marky mentoring Wolf too. Marky's contract is perfect in terms of how it lines up with Wolf's optimistic/probable NHL development.

It would have to be a colossal over pay, right now. I don't think Mercer and a 1st gets it done, right now.

[Jiggy_12]

On one hand, it would be kinda fun to keep Marky and see what happens with the rest of this season. Playoffs however unlikely, would be a ton of fun if this team could sneak in.

On the other hand, Markstrom's trade value will literally never be higher than it is right at this moment.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Pekkerhead

I don’t think Marky’s trade value can justify moving him before the deadline. We’re close to a playoff spot and he’s playing lights out. I’d be stunned if they move him now.

Would disagree, if the Flames asking price for their goalie is met, he should be moved. Remember the Flames are re-tooling

Its likely a few years before they are a contender.

By then Markstrom would be a UFA and is likely moved on.

Sure, they have played well. That's not going to change anything in my view

Flames in my view, are going to continue selling. However moving Markstrom is a complicated trade.... These type of moves don't happen very often at deadlines (Miller might the last time)

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by Jiggy_12

On one hand, it would be kinda fun to keep Marky and see what happens with the rest of this season. Playoffs however unlikely, would be a ton of fun if this team could sneak in.

On the other hand, Markstrom's trade value will literally never be higher than it is right at this moment.

His value to the Flames, his value to his team mates and his value around the league have probably never been higher. It's complicated.

If you trade a player who is performing so well, when there isn't an obvious reason to (like the UFA situation in the other cases), what kind of message does that send to the team, and to the majority of fans who are not as tied up in the business and transaction aspect of fandom? How does removing a key part of the current winning formula affect the players? Do all the smiles and jiggles disappear as they dredge out what they can over the next 30 games?

That's why it has to be an over the top trade offer. Like once in a lifetime overpay. It has to make sense to all the stake holders that such a trade was the obvious right thing for Conroy to do.

IMO no way NJD pay that.