Can Coleman win the Selke?

[FlamesAddiction]

It's rare for a winger to win, but I think he should get a lot of votes. He leads all forwards in +/- while providing decent offense. He gets significant time on the PK and is tied for 3rd with 4 shorthanded goals.

I think he has to be in the top 3 at this point.

[The Cobra]

=/- is useless stat.

But he is having a great season.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

=/- is useless stat.

But he is having a great season.

You just can't resist posting negative stuff in every thread can you?

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

It's rare for a winger to win, but I think he should get a lot of votes. He leads all forwards in +/- while providing decent offense. He gets significant time on the PK and is tied for 3rd with 4 shorthanded goals.

I think he has to be in the top 3 at this point.

That would be very cool to see, I don't know if he does. Can we separate Coleman from Backlund in that conversation? I doubt a market with the media attention of CGY will get on too many awards, but I will be rooting for Coleman.

If he got traded to TOR, then he'd be a shoe in.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

=/- is useless stat.

But he is having a great season.

This keeps getting said, but it's absurd. Its a 100% objective stat. You can't look at it individually, of course, but leading ALL forwards in the league means that you are good - period.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

You just can't resist posting negative stuff in every thread can you?

Plus//minus is a useless stat.

Coleman has a host of meaningful stats which prove how great he is.

You don’t need to drag out a stat from the dark ages.

[Lanny_McDonald]

You would think he would be in the conversation, but I don't think he's going to score enough points.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Plus//minus is a useless stat.

Coleman has a host of meaningful stats which prove how great he is.

You don’t need to drag out a stat from the dark ages.

It's not overly useful without context, but he leads the league and before the game today, was a +22 on a team with two forwards that were -15, which I assume improved after the game today. It's not a stat you take in isolation, but you look at in combination with other factors.

If it was a completely useless stat, why would the NHL even bother recording it?

[Cecil Terwilliger]

A quick google search sugests it’s been 20 years since a winger won. And none other than Lehtinen in the last 30+. I think he’s in tough.

[albertGQ]

If Hossa and Stone can get Selke votes as wingers, so can Pickles

[Locke]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

This keeps getting said, but it's absurd. Its a 100% objective stat. You can't look at it individually, of course, but leading ALL forwards in the league means that you are good - period.

Yeah, I have to agree.

+/- on its own isnt particularly useful until you start seeing LARGE variations. If someone is like +30 and someone else is -20 while its not the 'be all and end all' you can draw some conclusions.

Once that information is taken in conjunction with other information it becomes more useful.

Taken on its own conclusions tend to be more nebulous.

[Sofa GM]

Funny how +/- quit being a useful stat about the time McMinus came into the league……

[You Need a Thneed]

The funny thing is, Coleman doesn't even lead the Flames in EV goal differential.

That would be Zary.

[The Cobra]

One of the flaws is that it favours player who kill penalties, and penalizes players who play on the PP.

Stay at home dmen on great teams often have great =/-.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

One of the flaws is that it favours player who kill penalties, and penalizes players who play on the PP.

Stay at home dmen on great teams often have great =/-.

Yeah, but like the Thneed says...'we know that.'

So you factor that into the consideration of the usefulness of the stat.

But if someone is -30...its tough to make excuses for that. You cant just say..."Oh yeah, well +/- is useless."

I think the truth is that not any single stat tells the whole story. They have to be taken in conjunction.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

A quick google search sugests it’s been 20 years since a winger won. And none other than Lehtinen in the last 30+. I think he’s in tough.

I get what you're saying, but techincally Coleman is a C. I mean, does he play on the wing in Calgary, sure, buuuuut NHL.com still has him listed as a C.

I'm being a little bit tounge in cheek there, but then again Marner was a finalist and Stone's been both a runner-up and a finalist. Backes, Pandolfo. (None of them won, I'll grant you, but at least Coleman is actually a defensive forward playing on a shutdown line - unlike Marner and Stone.)

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

One of the flaws is that it favours player who kill penalties, and penalizes players who play on the PP.

Stay at home dmen on great teams often have great =/-.

How does it penalize players that play on the PP?

[Locke]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

How does it penalize players that play on the PP?

If a big chunk of your time is PP...you dont get a '+'

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Locke

If a big chunk of your time is PP...you dont get a '+'

But that isn't really penalizing them. I doubt Blake Coleman's +/- would be worse if he played on the powerplay more, although he would likely have more points. That's like saying counting point total stats penalizes players that don't play on the powerplay, or counting goaltender wins penalizes back-up goalies.

That's why we collect other stats like PP points or SA%.

[Badgers Nose]

This year we have:
Great rookie
Great two way forward
Great defence
Great goalie

Only thing missing is a great offensive producer, but maybe that's going to be Huby after all.