[Trade] Elias Lindholm to VAN for Kuzmenko, Brzustewicz, Jurmo, 2024 1st, cond 2024 4th

[cam_calderon]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Well first we got page after page about the trade, and then when no one had anything else to say about the trade, the discussion shifted to historical matters including Treliving's legacy.

Just don't mention pride...

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by dino7c

We go through this daily but the Flames VERY likely have their own pick

Flames had 2 picks for 2025, Montreal only gets one and it will almost certainly be the Panthers pick

Is it almost certainly though?

Montreal gets the better of the picks, if CGY's isn't top 10
Montreal gets FLA's if CGY's is top 10

So isn't it the case that the Flames need to tank next year and get into the top 10? Because if they are say 15th, and FLA is 20-something, MTL gets the better pick.

No?

[SuperMatt18]

Yup the two risks are Florida and Calgary both being top 10 and the Flames have to give them a top 10 pick from Florida.

Or Calgary picks like 11, and Florida's pick is 25 and we end up giving them a top 11 pick.

Just ridiculous conditions from Treliving.

[Groot]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Is it almost certainly though?

Montreal gets the better of the picks, if CGY's isn't top 10
Montreal gets FLA's if CGY's is top 10

So isn't it the case that the Flames need to tank next year and get into the top 10? Because if they are say 15th, and FLA is 20-something, MTL gets the better pick.

No?

Yes, if the Panthers make the playoffs this year, then the terrible outcome remaining is an 11-16 finish next year where the Panthers finish 11th or higher also. But he was responding to someone who said we don't have a 1st next year, we will regardless. Just hope it's not the above scenario.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by cam_calderon

Just don't mention pride...

Talking about a player involved in the trade?

“Shut up, loser!”

Talking about a GM of another team who had nothing to do with the trade?

“In this essay, I will show that Treliving was, in fact…”

[dieHARDflameZ]

Sometimes people may actually just want to discuss hockey and when a thread turns into every second post calling Kuzmenko a homophobe from the same couple of posters because god forbid he chose not to wear the pride jersey on pride night, it derails the thread.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by dieHARDflameZ

Sometimes people may actually just want to discuss hockey and when a thread turns into every second post calling Kuzmenko a homophobe from the same couple of posters because god forbid he chose not to wear the pride jersey on pride night, it derails the thread.

You’re right, there’s no way to discuss hockey when 6 out of 550 posts mention Pride. It would be a shame if it derailed a thread, and it would be shame if this derailed a thread, so let’s get back to talking about Treliving in this Calgary/Vancouver trade thread.

[cam_calderon]

Originally Posted by dieHARDflameZ

Sometimes people may actually just want to discuss hockey and when a thread turns into every second post calling Kuzmenko a homophobe from the same couple of posters because god forbid he chose not to wear the pride jersey on pride night, it derails the thread.

This one was a bit different because mods got directly involved, and yet didn't do much about some pretty offensive posts.

Kuzmenko is if not the centrepiece, then a big part of the trade. His history in the NHL, including his stance on pride and LGBTQI (apologies if I've got this acronym wrong), is fair game for discussion IMO.

[sa226]

I can understand the desire to just talk about the trade. There's always something divisive that derails a fairly benign discussion. However it's a pretty privileged position to just want to plug your ears and go la la la la, when there are people who follow this team who care a lot about these topics. It affects their daily lives. This is a community after all.

Having said all of that, if the original posts were just acknowledged and discussed organically within the thread, it would have been completely fine. It went off the rails when the original poster was piled on for bringing up a very on topic point of concern.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I hope people understand how luck works, you are making it seem like Treliving just lucked his way through what 9 seasons as GM here?

You need some luck to go your way, ask teams who win.

He did some really good things, he also made some mistakes, and he also had some luck go his way. He did his homework on Tkachuk, they tried to trade up to #3 to take him, but found out that Columbus was taking PLD and Vancouver would take Julovei.

[dieHARDflameZ]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

You’re right, there’s no way to discuss hockey when 6 out of 550 posts mention Pride. It would be a shame if it derailed a thread, and it would be shame if this derailed a thread, so let’s get back to talking about Treliving in this Calgary/Vancouver trade thread.

Ya ya ya...

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by sa226

I can understand the desire to just talk about the trade. There's always something divisive that derails a fairly benign discussion. However it's a pretty privileged position to just want to plug your ears and go la la la la, when there are people who follow this team who care a lot about these topics. It affects their daily lives. This is a community after all.

Having said all of that, if the original posts were just acknowledged and discussed organically within the thread, it would have been completely fine. It went off the rails when the original poster was piled on for bringing up a very on topic point of concern.

The original poster wasn't interested in having that conversation either. They were just taking pot shots at the player repeatedly without presenting any rounded out thoughts.

[GullFoss]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Talking about a player involved in the trade?

“Shut up, loser!”

Talking about a GM of another team who had nothing to do with the trade?

“In this essay, I will show that Treliving was, in fact…”

I actually had no issue discssing the player's stance on wearing a pride jersey. If you go back and read my posts on the matter, you'll find I'm actually a pretty stanch defender of gay rights myself.

[GullFoss]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Very little of this is true.
Your premise is that the narrative re. Sutter was fake. It wasn't.
Moreover, I think most people have understood that Sutter is a coach that drives results. He was fired because of how he treated people, including non players.

Anyways I would suggest that you are applying a strong amount of bias yourself to create what is largely a imaginary scenario that you just outlined.

Both things can be true:
The roster wasn't good enough
Sutter was justifiably fired, including for reasons beyond on-ice performance.

No you misunderstood me. The fake news was narrative that the team was in the dumps because of the coach. When in fact, the team was in the dumps because of the roster construction.

That the roster isn't good enough is obvious to everyone now. But for most of the 2022-23 season, everyone in the media and most people on this site felt the issue was largely confined to Sutter and perhaps extended to a few individual players.

On a side note, who do you think leaked to the media about the feud between Treliving and Sutter? Who do you think leaked that Treliving asked for ownerships permission to fire Sutter but they refused?

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

No you misunderstood me. The fake news was narrative that the team was in the dumps because of the coach. When in fact, the team was in the dumps because of the roster construction.

That the roster isn't good enough is obvious to everyone now. But for most of the 2022-23 season, everyone in the media and most people on this site felt the issue was largely confined to Sutter and perhaps extended to a few individual players.

On a side note, who do you think leaked to the media about the feud between Treliving and Sutter? Who do you think leaked that Treliving asked for ownerships permission to fire Sutter but they refused?

It wasn't fake news. The coach pretty much dumped on the franchise before the season started. He said we have no prospects and that our team had zero talent, this after the GM worked hard to get some pieces back.

He created a very toxic culture right off the bat, and that didn't help.

Its also very strange that you need to bring up Sutter every single day when he has nothing to do with anything anymore. What does Sutter have to do with Lindholm being traded to Vancouver?

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by TheMagicMan

Is there even any point in tanking next year? We don't have a first round pick. That is concerning...any thoughts of how we get that back so we pick in the top 10?

Well I think there is a decent chance the Flames have their own pick next year. And the tanking will be done regardless. Conroy came into a dire situation and went to ownership and said he had a plan to rebuild, get younger, trade UfAs for picks and prospects. Of course Flames ownership signed off, that is what they have a GM for, to tell them what the vision is for the club. Conroy is executing that vision. Even if he wanted to do a 180 they won’t have the horses to compete next year. But I doubt he will do a U turn, he and the ownership seem very committed to his GM vision around getting younger and developing a deep prospect base.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by bluejays

Treliving definitely had pluses. But his legacy is always going to be the Gaudreau walk away, the subsequent Tkachuk deal, and the further long term signing Huberdeau. He was alright in building the team to that point but f, at the end he screwed the team over just to save face. Hated the Huberdeau signing the moment it happened as well as the Kadri fiasco. Hoping at some point the Kadri deal can right itself through a value deal once a year or two pass by and his contract becomes reasonable, but we're stuck with Huberdeau for eternity. And if you hear the "insiders" talk that's the contract that is holding up ownership from a full rebuild. I don't agree with ownerships logic if that's the situation but man, nothing was good from the start with what they were trying to do with signing vets to 8 year deals. Could've been much worse if they didn't get lucky from situations changing while those offers were out there.

I don't think he screwed the team over just to save face, he was just a mediocre GM who fell in love with other team's players and didn't learn his lesson. The Troy Brouwer acquisition is probably what started everything. If he wasn't such a flop here, then James Neal never would've been targetted.

Without James Neal's horrendous contract and by extension Lucic's equally terrible contract on the books, Brad would've had more than enough to re-sign Tkachuk to a long term deal as well as Gaudreau's extension back in
2021. Obviously, both didn't happen and Treliving ultimately tripled down with Huberdeau's gargantuan deal.

If there's a lesson to be learned here, which I know provides very little solace, it's that you don't build through free agency especially if you have weak talent evaluation. The league is just too competitive, it's too risky, mistakes can happen and the butterfly effect of just 1 or 2 albatrosses can change absolutely everything.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Is it almost certainly though?

Montreal gets the better of the picks, if CGY's isn't top 10
Montreal gets FLA's if CGY's is top 10

So isn't it the case that the Flames need to tank next year and get into the top 10? Because if they are say 15th, and FLA is 20-something, MTL gets the better pick.

No?

He was worried about the Flames tanking and getting a top5 pick only to give it to Montreal, its very unlikely

If the Flames are 15th and FLA is 20th, it's really not that big a deal IMO. Obviously I would rather have both but this is where we are at. Flames will have multiple extra picks in the next two drafts so whatever. Not worth keeping us up at night.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Matthew Tkachuk would likely have been traded this season anyways if he was only willing to sign for 6 years.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by dino7c

He was worried about the Flames tanking and getting a top5 pick only to give it to Montreal, its very unlikely

If the Flames are 15th and FLA is 20th, it's really not that big a deal IMO. Obviously I would rather have both but this is where we are at. Flames will have multiple extra picks in the next two drafts so whatever. Not worth keeping us up at night.

11th and 28th is a pretty big deal though.

The Flames need to get into the top 10, otherwise their non-playoff year will be a waste because the Habs will get our pick and we'll be left with a late 1st from FLA