[Trade] Elias Lindholm to VAN for Kuzmenko, Brzustewicz, Jurmo, 2024 1st, cond 2024 4th

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

And it was pretty obvious some in the media were very biased during the Treliving vs Sutter spat last year. Perhaps to ensure the information flow from Tre kept coming. And then after leaving the dumpster fire in Calgary, Tre somehow gets the most coveted GM position in the NHL in Toronto with a very mediocre record.

How was it obvious that the media was biased? Evidence?

[Roof-Daddy]

Treliving made some mistakes throughout his time with the Flames, but he gets way too much of a bad rap. He had some terrible luck as well.

If Bennett turns into a #1C as projected by almost everyone, Monahan doesn't get bit by the chronic injury bug, and Fox doesn't #### us over, he would have built a juggernaut team here for several seasons. Like probably 4-5 years of 105+ points.

His coaching hires were absolutely fricken terrible though Like, my god.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Treliving made some mistakes throughout his time with the Flames, but he gets way too much of a bad rap. He had some terrible luck as well.

If Bennett turns into a #1C as projected by almost everyone, Monahan doesn't get bit by the chronic injury bug, and Fox doesn't #### us over, he would have built a juggernaut team here for several seasons. Like probably 4-5 years of 105+ points.

Luck ? Losers blame results on bad luck

Maybe I can buy Monahan is bad luck - but every team deals with injuries and the Flames were actually very healthy during BTs tenure

Fox was never signing - that isn’t bad luck . Bennett was a pick that didn’t work - Not bad Luck

This was actually BTs and the Flames problem - always looking at the “if everything goes right “ angle

Flames never built a proper team to compete year in year out at an elite level . And it’s because they never had home grown #1 D and Centers

Please learn your lesson !

[GioforPM]

Bennett not being a 1C may not be bad luck but it was also not on Treliving. Bennett was picked where the consensus had him.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Luck ? Losers blame results on bad luck

Maybe I can buy Monahan is bad luck - but every team deals with injuries and the Flames were actually very healthy during BTs tenure

Fox was never signing - that isn’t bad luck . Bennett was a pick that didn’t work - Not bad Luck

This was actually BTs and the Flames problem - always looking at the “if everything goes right “ angle

Flames never built a proper team to compete year in year out at an elite level . And it’s because they never had home grown #1 D and Centers

Please learn your lesson !

Yeah, when you draft a future Norris winner in the third round but he refuses to sign with you that's some bad luck.

When you draft a consensus future #1C 4th overall and he doesn't even become a legit 2nd line C in his time with you, that's some bad luck.

When your current #1C can't stay healthy right when your team is reaching contender status that is also some bad luck.

The Flames still managed a 114 point season despite all these things happening. Fox would have been in Norris contention while still on an ELC during the 114 point season.

[iggyloob12]

So because Brad came across in interviews as likeable, and Darryl was often a condescending jerk/bully to reporters, the media somehow tricked Brendan Shanahan into believing that Brad was his guy? Have I got that right?

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Treliving made some mistakes throughout his time with the Flames, but he gets way too much of a bad rap. He had some terrible luck as well.

If Bennett turns into a #1C as projected by almost everyone, Monahan doesn't get bit by the chronic injury bug, and Fox doesn't #### us over, he would have built a juggernaut team here for several seasons. Like probably 4-5 years of 105+ points.

His coaching hires were absolutely fricken terrible though Like, my god.

This is true but on the flip side what if the Canucks drafted Tkachuk? What if they're weren't extremely fortunate finding Gaudreau in the 4th round? Just as easily they could have been terrible.

This is why I think you need to utilize every method possible when rebuilding. Some bounces will go your way and others won't.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

Treliving working independently is a top down management style, these types of managers may make the final decision, it does have its disadvantages. Some managers are delegators, they might manage by telling people what they want done and how they want it done. This also has some disadvantages too; But now many companies are seeing the benefits of the empowerment model which empowers individuals or teams by giving them the tools to use their skills and ideas. Conroy talks about using everyone, about making decisions together and he talks about letting players use their talents. These are empowerment models of management. Conroy has also talked in the past about his interest in how other leagues do certain things so he is thinking and creating outside the box. Treliving has accomplished a lot and founded a hockey league,so these would be indicators as to why he likes to be in charge of the direction of what he manages. Not necessarily pride but a different approach to accomplishing goals. I like what Conroy has to offer verses top down because he seems a bit more connected to the little things that matter and won't leave it too long for the coach or player to figure out. There is a lot to like about Conroy, he is very infectious and seems like a humble but smart man.

I very very largely agree to all. However where the ego angle comes from for me, is his need to get players at any cost when they were in the media or the circumstances he got them. Namely the players I previously named.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Hackey

This is true but on the flip side what if the Canucks drafted Tkachuk? What if they're weren't extremely fortunate finding Gaudreau in the 4th round? Just as easily they could have been terrible.

This is why I think you need to utilize every method possible when rebuilding. Some bounces will go your way and others won't.

Absolutely.

He traded away waaaaay too many draft picks and hired terrible coaches.

Fox forcing his way out like an entitled twat doesn't sting nearly as much if you have Noah Dobson in the system because you didn't trade multiple picks for an over rated Hamonic.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

kadri and Huderdeau are not the worst veterans to have around the team in the context of a rebuild. They will be the Stajan and Glencross's of the team.

That doesn’t make any sense

They are bad contracts moving forward. The best thing you can say is they don’t matter. What did Stajan and Glencross do btw

[Freeway]

I would argue that a LOT of Brad's work ethic and work habits, for better and for worse, stem from coming up in the leagues and team (Arizona) where he did. With few resources, you gotta do everything *yourself*, so you're wired to do *everything* yourself.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Treliving made some mistakes throughout his time with the Flames, but he gets way too much of a bad rap. He had some terrible luck as well.

If Bennett turns into a #1C as projected by almost everyone, Monahan doesn't get bit by the chronic injury bug, and Fox doesn't #### us over, he would have built a juggernaut team here for several seasons. Like probably 4-5 years of 105+ points.

His coaching hires were absolutely fricken terrible though Like, my god.

I'm willing to give Treliving a few mulligans.

But his Coaching hires were brutal. His FA signings were atrocious and most of the goaltenders he brought in couldnt stop a beach-ball.

[Jason14h]

BTs FA signing weren’t atrocious to be fair . There were some huge misses but also successes .

Tanev and Markstrum for example

[Leo]

Kuzmenko shooting practice with nucks

https://youtu.be/UYHxz8amgzs?si=T-6CHNnOxcTuTEcd

https://youtu.be/LmG7drwJMps?si=NkMEpBOCDzupevDB

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Luck ? Losers blame results on bad luck

Maybe I can buy Monahan is bad luck - but every team deals with injuries and the Flames were actually very healthy during BTs tenure

Fox was never signing - that isn’t bad luck . Bennett was a pick that didn’t work - Not bad Luck

This was actually BTs and the Flames problem - always looking at the “if everything goes right “ angle

Flames never built a proper team to compete year in year out at an elite level . And it’s because they never had home grown #1 D and Centers

Please learn your lesson !

I think that’s why he tried to get Hamilton who could have been 1D but for whatever reason it didn’t work here. His next target Hanifin never grew into 1 and never will be one

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by bluejays

I very very largely agree to all. However where the ego angle comes from for me, is his need to get players at any cost when they were in the media or the circumstances he got them. Namely the players I previously named.

Your point about pride, I see where you're coming from. I am not sure if pride is the best word. Some of the players that he went after were players that other teams were also pursuing. And of course like other GM's, he has specific players that he likes. That's why I attributed more to management style. Top down has to do with the direction of the flow of information. Delegating has to do with the direction of the flow of information. Not using other people's experiences or insights would restrict the flow of information that person has based on their own experiences. That could be pride or could be his management style. Conroy talked about how Brian Burke used to use him and Pascal to go out and do things, but Treliving didn't use them the same way. That's not always a bad thing because it made Conroy more aware and more hungry to do things a little differently. He saw the deficiencies he saw how things unfolded. Empowerment has to do with the flow of information when given to a team and the have the power to use it and to share it. Because some people have more skills more ideas and more tools, by allowing everybody to share as a team makes the decisions made a lot stronger. Treliving was bound to his own experiences he liked Bill Peters because he talked to Bill Peters. He even said that himself, but it would be better if you could listen to what everybody says about Bill Peters or any other coach for that matter, and weigh that against your final decision. I don't disagree with you about pride, but I think it's too specific, I think the management styles attributed to some of the shortfalls. For example Burke may seem like a guy with a lot of pride but from what Conroy said, he seems like an empowering person.


So if you want to agree to disagree we can, just don't know if pride is the right word but I think I know what you're trying to say.

Let's just say that Treliving likes to drive fancy cars but Conroy knows what makes them run.

To be fair we don't really know the extent that Brad Treliving worked with others, we just go mostly by what we hear.

Brad did a lot of good things but good or bad, Conroy got a front row seat.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

Your point about pride, I see where you're coming from. I am not sure if pride is the best word. Some of the players that he went after were players that other teams were also pursuing. And of course like other GM's, he has specific players that he likes. That's why I attributed more to management style. Top down has to do with the direction of the flow of information. Delegating has to do with the direction of the flow of information. Not using other people's experiences or insights would restrict the flow of information that person has based on their own experiences. That could be pride or could be his management style. Conroy talked about how Brian Burke used to use him and Pascal to go out and do things, but Treliving didn't use them the same way. That's not always a bad thing because it made Conroy more aware and more hungry to do things a little differently. He saw the deficiencies he saw how things unfolded. Empowerment has to do with the flow of information when given to a team and the have the power to use it and to share it. Because some people have more skills more ideas and more tools, by allowing everybody to share as a team makes the decisions made a lot stronger. Treliving was bound to his own experiences he liked Bill Peters because he talked to Bill Peters. He even said that himself, but it would be better if you could listen to what everybody says about Bill Peters or any other coach for that matter, and weigh that against your final decision. I don't disagree with you about pride, but I think it's too specific, I think the management styles attributed to some of the shortfalls. For example Burke may seem like a guy with a lot of pride but from what Conroy said, he seems like an empowering person.


So if you want to agree to disagree we can, just don't know if pride is the right word but I think I know what you're trying to say.

Let's just say that Treliving likes to drive fancy cars but Conroy knows what makes them run.

To be fair we don't really know the extent that Brad Treliving worked with others, we just go mostly by what we hear.

Brad did a lot of good things but good or bad, Conroy got a front row seat.

Well said. It’s another view to consider for sure.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Treliving made some mistakes throughout his time with the Flames, but he gets way too much of a bad rap. He had some terrible luck as well.

If Bennett turns into a #1C as projected by almost everyone, Monahan doesn't get bit by the chronic injury bug, and Fox doesn't #### us over, he would have built a juggernaut team here for several seasons. Like probably 4-5 years of 105+ points.

His coaching hires were absolutely fricken terrible though Like, my god.

Was going to say. Even if the players pan out, his coaching hires probably keep the team from competing for a championship.

Average gm. Good at making big hockey trades and RFA contracts, Questionable talent evaluation (got by on his scouts/connie/snowy) and awful evaluator of coaching.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

Average gm. Good at making big hockey trades and RFA contracts, Questionable talent evaluation (got by on his scouts/connie/snowy) and awful evaluator of coaching.

I think that's a very fair assessment.

[FlamesAddiction]

Treliving did some really good thing, some poor things. His whole body of work probably averages out to average. By the time left, things were on a down swing and painted the current management into a corner which kind of skews his overall work. Bad decisions were starting to catch up with him.

It's the normal trajectory for a lot of GMs and why teams replace them once it gets to that point. I'm glad BT cut and run instead of staying. The decision should have been to let him walk anyway, so I think we dodged a bullet there.