[Trade] Elias Lindholm to VAN for Kuzmenko, Brzustewicz, Jurmo, 2024 1st, cond 2024 4th

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Yes you did.



In hindsight for sure it was the wrong way to go.

I cringed on Kadri's term length the second it was signed.

But there was a strong down the middle, replace what you lost and take advantage of the strong goaltender and elite D core to continue what you did the previous season thought process to it.

kadri and Huderdeau are not the worst veterans to have around the team in the context of a rebuild. They will be the Stajan and Glencross's of the team.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I like the whole trade tree actually

Acquiring Hamilton
Dealing Hamilton
Dealing what we got for Hamilton

Yup, the tree is big and beautiful - and still growing!

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Yes you did.



In hindsight for sure it was the wrong way to go.

I cringed on Kadri's term length the second it was signed.

But there was a strong down the middle, replace what you lost and take advantage of the strong goaltender and elite D core to continue what you did the previous season thought process to it.

Maybe not worded the best but his intent wasn't to screw the team. He did it through being short sighted is the message I'm trying to get across. His ego first. Needed to get his guy at all costs with Kadri, and needed to not have another guy walk away under his watch. His intent wasn't to screw the team over, but he did it through ignoring the long term implications.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by bluejays

Maybe not worded the best but his intent wasn't to screw the team. He did it through being short sighted is the message I'm trying to get across. His ego first. Needed to get his guy at all costs with Kadri, and needed to not have another guy walk away under his watch. His intent wasn't to screw the team over, but he did it through ignoring the long term implications.

I don't see ego at all. Nor does that really fit the feel of the guy.

The team just won the division, lost in round 2 and had two players exit. They felt they did well in the Florida trade and wanted to get that additional top six presence back.

Didn't work.

But it wasn't an attempt to screw the team. It wasn't an ego move. It was a guy making a hockey move that he thought would have the team back in the mix as a contender.

He was wrong. But this need to paint the guy as a complete villain is just juvenile.

[Jason14h]

BTs issue at the end of his tenure was the same as the entire time . Reactionary vs a long term strategy

Every year he reacted to a shortcoming - goalies , D, coaches , elite players leaving , but never had a concrete good 5 year vision and plan IMO

But I don’t see any malice . He just was an average GM over his entire tenure . It happens

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I don't see ego at all. Nor does that really fit the feel of the guy.

The team just won the division, lost in round 2 and had two players exit. They felt they did well in the Florida trade and wanted to get that additional top six presence back.

Didn't work.

But it wasn't an attempt to screw the team. It wasn't an ego move. It was a guy making a hockey move that he thought would have the team back in the mix as a contender.

He was wrong. But this need to paint the guy as a complete villain is just juvenile.

I think we’ll agree to disagree then. I’ve said it before and again that he didn’t intend to screw the flames over but did with needing to get certain moves done. Those two were ones but the Hamonic one as well brought that into the light. I also disagree he didn’t have an ego. When Conroy said he didn’t involve others in his trade talks (more or less) what other reason would that be the case aside from his own pride? He may be the stereotypical egomaniac running around with proclamations of self grandeur, but his actions show he also wasn’t the humble team first leader some paint him as. To me his ego ran the show and that’s very much like a lot of politicians.

[Shazam]

Team is currently in 24th place, below the Coyotes. Ooooh yeah.

Hoping we can pick top 5. Sens are on a bit of a heater.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Shazam

Team is currently in 24th place, below the Coyotes. Ooooh yeah.

Hoping we can pick top 5. Sens are on a bit of a heater.

Yep, Flames are 24th with 49 points, 18th place team has 52 points.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by flambers

Yep, Flames are 24th with 49 points, 18th place team has 52 points.

We can still make the playoffs!

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by bluejays

I think we’ll agree to disagree then. I’ve said it before and again that he didn’t intend to screw the flames over but did with needing to get certain moves done. Those two were ones but the Hamonic one as well brought that into the light. I also disagree he didn’t have an ego. When Conroy said he didn’t involve others in his trade talks (more or less) what other reason would that be the case aside from his own pride? He may be the stereotypical egomaniac running around with proclamations of self grandeur, but his actions show he also wasn’t the humble team first leader some paint him as. To me his ego ran the show and that’s very much like a lot of politicians.

You can have a control freak angle to a job without having a huge ego.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Bingo

You can have a control freak angle to a job without having a huge ego.

To me it’s one and the same. The ego is driving the controlling behaviour.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by bluejays

To me it’s one and the same. The ego is driving the controlling behaviour.

Bingo is right. Controlling behaviour can also be driven by fear or perfectionism, neither of which is ego.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Bingo is right. Controlling behaviour can also be driven by fear or perfectionism, neither of which is ego.

Maybe I’m thinking differently but even if he doesn’t trust the people around him (fear) it’s still a thought if “well, I know better than them” or “I’m more experienced”. Is that not some form of ego? May not be full narcissism but it’s ego.

[Jay Random]

More like, ‘I'm the guy that gets fired if this goes wrong.’

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by bluejays

Maybe I’m thinking differently but even if he doesn’t trust the people around him (fear) it’s still a thought if “well, I know better than them” or “I’m more experienced”. Is that not some form of ego? May not be full narcissism but it’s ego.

It can also come from "this is all on me"

Either way you certainly can't suggest it's ego with certainty.

[GullFoss]

A lot of leaders control information flow as a way of ensuring they aren't undermined and stay in control. It's not a good trait from an organizational standpoint, but it's good for the individual because it limits the ability of others to challenge or critique them. So benefits the individual to the detriment of the organization.

I think it's ultimately more about maintaining power than anything else. It fits in with the idea of Treliving cultivating an elevated image of his abilities and traits through media narrative (hardest working GM). He used media spin to talk up his trades and signings and how he was "in on everything." If he didn't involve others in his trade talks, how did it always leak that Tre was "so close and highly involved" in every big NHL trade. Tre was leaking it himself...

And it was pretty obvious some in the media were very biased during the Treliving vs Sutter spat last year. Perhaps to ensure the information flow from Tre kept coming. And then after leaving the dumpster fire in Calgary, Tre somehow gets the most coveted GM position in the NHL in Toronto with a very mediocre record.

[memphusk]

So what you're saying is Toronto was tricked by media? So what Toronto does happened to them? Looks good on them.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

A lot of leaders control information flow as a way of ensuring they aren't undermined and stay in control. It's not a good trait from an organizational standpoint, but it's good for the individual because it limits the ability of others to challenge or critique them. So benefits the individual to the detriment of the organization.

I think it's ultimately more about maintaining power than anything else. It fits in with the idea of Treliving cultivating an elevated image of his abilities and traits through media narrative (hardest working GM). He used media spin to talk up his trades and signings and how he was "in on everything." If he didn't involve others in his trade talks, how did it always leak that Tre was "so close and highly involved" in every big NHL trade. Tre was leaking it himself...

And it was pretty obvious some in the media were very biased during the Treliving vs Sutter spat last year. Perhaps to ensure the information flow from Tre kept coming. And then after leaving the dumpster fire in Calgary, Tre somehow gets the most coveted GM position in the NHL in Toronto with a very mediocre record.

While I disagree with the last paragraph, the first two I believe. It’s one thing not to trust your team when you first started because Conroy and the assistants were probably raw and needed some time, but eight or whatever years he was here is plenty of time to built trust and involve others. So I do believe there’s a level of ego. There were enough signs when you go all in on guys or force the deal especially where media buzz is concerned. Brian Burke school of business. There were signs. He just played the media well and respectable rather than going against them. And it went a long way. Look at the Leaf media today. Everyone pretty non chalant when this has been one of the more mediocre Leafs teams in recent memory when three of his signs have been downwardly bad.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Shazam

We can still make the playoffs!

I have a feeling that last home stand waved bye bye to that.

I think Conroy has given the players as much rope as he could. But he’s going to start reeling it in after the all star break.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by bluejays

I think we’ll agree to disagree then. I’ve said it before and again that he didn’t intend to screw the flames over but did with needing to get certain moves done. Those two were ones but the Hamonic one as well brought that into the light. I also disagree he didn’t have an ego. When Conroy said he didn’t involve others in his trade talks (more or less) what other reason would that be the case aside from his own pride? He may be the stereotypical egomaniac running around with proclamations of self grandeur, but his actions show he also wasn’t the humble team first leader some paint him as. To me his ego ran the show and that’s very much like a lot of politicians.

Treliving working independently is a top down management style, these types of managers may make the final decision, it does have its disadvantages. Some managers are delegators, they might manage by telling people what they want done and how they want it done. This also has some disadvantages too; But now many companies are seeing the benefits of the empowerment model which empowers individuals or teams by giving them the tools to use their skills and ideas. Conroy talks about using everyone, about making decisions together and he talks about letting players use their talents. These are empowerment models of management. Conroy has also talked in the past about his interest in how other leagues do certain things so he is thinking and creating outside the box. Treliving has accomplished a lot and founded a hockey league,so these would be indicators as to why he likes to be in charge of the direction of what he manages. Not necessarily pride but a different approach to accomplishing goals. I like what Conroy has to offer verses top down because he seems a bit more connected to the little things that matter and won't leave it too long for the coach or player to figure out. There is a lot to like about Conroy, he is very infectious and seems like a humble but smart man.