[Trade] Habs trade Monahan to the Jets for a 2024 1st and cond 2027 3rd

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by BoLevi

I agree. This isn't a "conservative" move. They are rolling the dice that Huberdeau (presumably) can feed Kuzmenko into a year of good goal production raising his value for next year's TDL.

I doubt they view Kuzmenko as a long term piece here.

Yes, doubtful. But still possible. It is entirely possible that Kuzmenko figures it out and becomes a very useful player. And then the Flames get him re-signed at a good price, and everything is sunshine and rainbows!

Or they trade him (more likely).

Either way, he's an asset.

[Naitix]

I don’t think Kuzmenko had negative value, I would have given up a 3rd straight up to get him. A 3rd round pick has what like 10-15% chance of playing in the nhl, what’s the chance they ever score 20? I would easily gamble a 3rd saying Kuzy has a higher chance of becoming a 30 goal scorer again. It’s not like his contract is bad, it’s just one more year, for teams that are not against the cap it makes sense to trade for him.

And during trade negotiations Canucks obviously understood that Flames would benefit from having someone like Kuzy and Flames obviously see that too and wanted him.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

It's really too bad that this trade is blowing up in the faces of the Flames and the talking heads are calling the Flames idiots for giving Monahan away WITH a 1st round pick, and then Montreal turning into a 1st and another pick. I wish they would look at the clown that made the deal instead of the team he represented. They should be roasting the guy in Toronto for this error, not the Flames. Montreal did great here because the guy in Toronto had no plan and was incompetent in the his the execution of his duties. Hopefully the media will finally get the clue when he does to Toronto what he did to Calgary and drive that franchise into the turf.

Wouldn’t that just make you so happy? That and your eff you money, what more could one ask for?

For a guy who only two weeks ago was saying he could care less about what players do after they leave the Flames you sure seem to want to ruminate on what the ex GM did. Live in the moment, right bud?

[Classic_Sniper]

Good on Montreal for making out like bandits on this trade. They weaponized their cap space and bilked it into 2 first round picks.

Also, good on Monahan for the strong season he’s having. I was never one to believe that he was just broken and couldn’t play anymore; always thought it was more so the lack of talent that he was hitched to on the 4th line. Now he’s getting 1st line minutes and top PP time with Suzuki, Caufield and is on pace to shatter his previous career high in PP points.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Gaudreau had the same right not to sign a contract a year before it expired.

I'm just trying to imagine how badly CP would have melted down if Treliving had offered Gaudreau 8 x $10.5m after his 49-point COVID season.

Well, based on everything we know, Gaudeau wanted to re-sign back in the summer of 2021 and the number was never going to be $10.5M. Gaudreau even told his parents that offseason that he’d probably re-sign if the number was anywhere close to his target.

Treliving as he typically does though with his own guys, lowballed Gaudreau with an embarrassing offer which Gaudreau obviously didn’t accept. Then talks restarted again prior to the season and a deal was close, but the Flames walked away from it probably because they were uncomfortable with the number which I can only assume was in high $8M range which Treliving didn’t want to do.

That was until he put up 115 which by that point it was too late. Johnny got married before the season started and his wife just couldn’t see herself living here for another 8 years. Perhaps if their wedding was date was set to 2022 instead or if he ended up marrying a Calgary girl then perhaps the history of this franchise looks much different than it does today.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Well, based on everything we know, Gaudeau wanted to re-sign back in the summer of 2021 and the number was never going to be $10.5M. Gaudreau even told his parents that offseason that he’d probably re-sign if the number was anywhere close to his target.

Treliving as he typically does though with his own guys, lowballed Gaudreau with an embarrassing offer which Gaudreau obviously didn’t accept. Then talks restarted again prior to the season and a deal was close, but the Flames walked away from it probably because they were uncomfortable with the number which I can only assume was in high $8M range which Treliving didn’t want to do.

That was until he put up 115 which by that point it was too late. Johnny got married before the season started and his wife just couldn’t see herself living here for another 8 years. Perhaps if their wedding was date was set to 2022 instead or if he ended up marrying a Calgary girl then perhaps the history of this franchise looks much different than it does today.

We don't want GMs negotiating hard on contracts?

Conroy should just offer huge contracts in case the guy explodes the next season?

Gaudreau was coming off back to back seasons well under a point per game, he didn't deserve a $10.5/yr contract. Nothing we've seen in Columbus since suggests he does either.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Bingo

We don't want GMs negotiating hard on contracts?

Conroy should just offer huge contracts in case the guy explodes the next season?

Gaudreau was coming off back to back seasons well under a point per game, he didn't deserve a $10.5/yr contract. Nothing we've seen in Columbus since suggests he does either.

You want your GM to be smart. There’s times to negotiate hard and there’s times to pull back. If Treliving’s talent evaluation skills were stronger, then he would’ve realized that he needed to dial it back on his UFAs and increase it for his RFAs. You have to know your players and what they’re really worth.

Maybe Mangiapane and especially Huberdeau wouldn’t be so grossly overpaid or maybe Tkachuk and Gaudreau would still be Flames, who knows. But make no mistake, Treliving’s decision making is the biggest reason why this franchise is in the gutter right now.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

You want your GM to be smart. There’s times to negotiate hard and there’s times to pull back. If Treliving’s talent evaluation skills were stronger, then he would’ve realized that he needed to dial it back on his UFAs and increase it for his RFAs. You have to know your players and what they’re really worth.

Maybe Mangiapane and especially Huberdeau wouldn’t be so grossly overpaid or maybe Tkachuk and Gaudreau would still be Flames, who knows. But make no mistake, Treliving’s decision making is the biggest reason why this franchise is in the gutter right now.

None of this is assured. There’s no more reason to believe that if Treliving signed Gaudreau in ‘21, or was signing the teams own free agents to more lucrative deals that the Flames would have or would be better off today. The Oilers did exactly that with Hall, Eberle, RNH etc. should Treliving have handed Sam Bennett 6x6?

Treliving deserves his fair share of responsibility but it’s far more likely the reason the Flames are in the gutter today, as you put it, is because they’re a smallish Canadian market in the middle of nowhere with an aged arena. The Flames had and will continue to have an uphill battle to keep and attract high end talent.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Bingo

We don't want GMs negotiating hard on contracts?

Conroy should just offer huge contracts in case the guy explodes the next season?

Gaudreau was coming off back to back seasons well under a point per game, he didn't deserve a $10.5/yr contract. Nothing we've seen in Columbus since suggests he does either.

My issue with it is that the rumour mill was much lower than 10.5 million. Treliving screwed up in that he thought Gaudreau was a core piece and he walked him to free agency because he got too cute in negotiations.
He also seemed to negotiate much harder with home grown guys than UFAs.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by TOfan

None of this is assured. There’s no more reason to believe that if Treliving signed Gaudreau in ‘21, or was signing the teams own free agents to more lucrative deals that the Flames would have or would be better off today. The Oilers did exactly that with Hall, Eberle, RNH etc. should Treliving have handed Sam Bennett 6x6?

Treliving deserves his fair share of responsibility but it’s far more likely the reason the Flames are in the gutter today, as you put it, is because they’re a smallish Canadian market in the middle of nowhere with an aged arena. The Flames had and will continue to have an uphill battle to keep and attract high end talent.

No that is hand waving away all the mistakes Treliving made. He was terrible with coaches and he boxed himself in with his crappy UFA signings. Tkachuk had to bridge because of cap. That’s on Treliving and dipping into the free agent market. He is doing the same thing in Toronto.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Bonded

No that is hand waving away all the mistakes Treliving made. He was terrible with coaches and he boxed himself in with his crappy UFA signings. Tkachuk had to bridge because of cap. That’s on Treliving and dipping into the free agent market. He is doing the same thing in Toronto.

You’re ignoring the most important part. Neither Gaudreau or Tkachuk wanted to remain Flames. I doubt there’s much Treliving, or anyone, could have done to change that.

And I hope that if the Flames do end up extending Hanifin, he truly does want to be here because if he doesn’t, then a contract probably won’t keep him here long term.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Johnny wasn’t worth what he wanted. His trade market was soft as well. I think Treliving wanted to shake things up but with Covid it was hard.

No one saw that 115 point season coming. They even started him on the 2nd line in camp.

You can’t blame Treliving for trying to negotiate a good deal for a guy who had a lot of issues being motivated on and off the ice.

[PegCityFlamesFan]

It's amazing how almost every thread ends up with the same discussion.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Johnny wasn’t worth what he wanted. His trade market was soft as well. I think Treliving wanted to shake things up but with Covid it was hard.

No one saw that 115 point season coming. They even started him on the 2nd line in camp.

You can’t blame Treliving for trying to negotiate a good deal for a guy who had a lot of issues being motivated on and off the ice.

I think a lot of people seem to forget the two seasons prior to his UFA season. Below ppg production and plenty of poor body language. If Gaudreau’s playing at that level, I would have had a hard time signing him for 8x8, or whatever was his side was requesting.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by TOfan

I think a lot of people seem to forget the two seasons prior to his UFA season. Below ppg production and plenty of poor body language. If Gaudreau’s playing at that level, I would have had a hard time signing him for 8x8, or whatever was his side was requesting.

The same people complaining about the negotiations would have had pitchforks ready for Treliving if he signed Johnny to anything over 8.5 at that time.

A lot of tunnel vision for a lot of people. Like you said his body language and everything was bad. Looked like a player who checked out.

I think those negotiations and getting married was a huge reality check for him. He was about to lose a huge payday if he kept it up.

Now that those 3 guys have been separated from each other, the biggest takeaway for me is that Tkachuk was what made things work.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by TOfan

You’re ignoring the most important part. Neither Gaudreau or Tkachuk wanted to remain Flames. I doubt there’s much Treliving, or anyone, could have done to change that.

And I hope that if the Flames do end up extending Hanifin, he truly does want to be here because if he doesn’t, then a contract probably won’t keep him here long term.

Gaudreau was fine signing an extension the summer before and Tkachuk was apparently willing to not take a bridge deal. Tre messed up. You must also be a leafs fan with how much water you carry for him.

[Manhattanboy]

Treliving with F grades on both of them. Nice guy. Terrible GM.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Gaudreau was fine signing an extension the summer before and Tkachuk was apparently willing to not take a bridge deal. Tre messed up. You must also be a leafs fan with how much water you carry for him.

Treliving’ window is 2-3 yrs for the Leafs

He will spend it all and they will be left with nothing when he is done

He was given a pretty good core but he is ####ing around with the goalies and still don’t know how to fill the team properly

I doubt the Leafs will win it all during his time

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

I doubt the Leafs will win it all during his time

That's a pretty safe bet for almost any team. Especially the Leafs, who haven't even made it to the finals since 1967.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Wouldn’t that just make you so happy?

Yeah, it would. Focus on the guy that ruined the team and let quality players go for nothing. Players hold little responsibility to the direction of the team. When management ####s the bed it ruins the team long term. I would love the focus to land where it should instead of on the team generally.

That and your eff you money, what more could one ask for?

Wow, that really triggered you. Don't worry, someday you'll get yours too if you're smart, apply yourself, and work hard. Well, maybe you won't.

For a guy who only two weeks ago was saying he could care less about what players do after they leave the Flames you sure seem to want to ruminate on what the ex GM did. Live in the moment, right bud?

Players come and go and are interchangeable. They don't make decisions that guide or change the fortunes of the organization. That is management's responsibility. When managers #### up, us fans feel it for years or decades. So when a manager takes a team with a great core and allows it to fall apart on their watch and drives the organization into the ditch, then yes, they deserve a great deal of derision, even after they leave the organization. I will say that when a guy sets the team up for failure and then ####s off to Toronto for his dream job, and all sorts of accolades, I take that as an affront to the team I cheer for. You can continue to fellate Treliving, but he deserves every bit of blame and derision he receives from the fans.

And I'm not your bud, pal.