Hart, McLeod, Dube, Foote, Formenton charged with sexual assault

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by transplant99

My guess?

Defamation.

It would suggest guilt of a heinous crime which then follows the person for the rest of their lives and impair future earning abilities.

If they just pay him the little bit left on his existing deal, they can then just walk away with zero responsibility ever again.

I mean....there has likely been dozens of highly respected lawyers in on these decisions, so i would suggest all parties involved are listening to that advice rather than knee-jerking moves that do nothing but satisfy a bloodlust among the public and could cost more financially down the road.

I guess this is my overall question then. Why is a criminal conviction required here but not in terminations for Perry and Kane?

I don't think anyone is arguing Dube should get his day in court, that's just obvious.

Maybe I'm reacting emotionally, but I hope there is some some more definitive action possible on behalf of the NHL and the Flames. Because t really feels to me like they are simply hoping this will blow over.

[Red Potato Standing By]

I think if the players had multiple years left on their contracts it might be different, but I would guess that the NHL is probably just going the path of least resistance when it comes to the contracts.( just my opinion)

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

The statement you are talking about was identical to a whole bunch of players, some of whom are not part of the 5.

I disagree. Dube's statement sounds a lot different than most of the others, especially those of players who weren't charged. Most of the players not charged gave more strong wording indicating that they weren't involved and condemned the incident, or at the very least had alibies and didn't say much else. Dube's statement never said that he wasn't involved, only that he didn't do anything criminal. His agent also made veiled threats if anyone said otherwise, which I didn't see come from anyone else, other than Carter Hart's side.

Here is Dube's response. They never say that he wasn't involved, only that he didn't do any criminal wrongdoings, and he is cooperating. Carter Hart's reps gave a pretty similar statement.

"All of CBC News' questions will be asked and answered during the pending NHL investigation. Dillon did not engage in any wrongdoing, and he co-operated fully with the independent London Police Service investigation in 2018, through which all players were then cleared of any wrongdoing.

"Naming Dillon or attempting to associate him in any way with alleged criminal wrongdoing, or alleging that he was not co-operative with the London police or was unwilling to co-operate with Hockey Canada, will constitute materially false statements constituting defamation causing serious financial and reputational harm," David Cowan, agent for Dubé wrote to CBC.

In a Sept. 23 media appearance, Dubé told a Sportsnet columnist that "I've co-operated in any way possible and will continue co-operating. I've done everything I can to co-operate."

"I will continue to do that. With it going on, I wish I could share more, but that's kind of all I can share up to this point," Dubé said.

He added to his statement the next day:

"With (the investigation) going on, I wish I could share more. But that's all I can share to this point. I would love to be transparent. I know that's all I can really say on it to be honest. For me, I wish I could tell."

Compare that to the others.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/players-stat...2018-1.6597503

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

I guess this is my overall question then. Why is a criminal conviction required here but not in terminations for Perry and Kane?

I don't think anyone is arguing Dube should get his day in court, that's just obvious.

Maybe I'm reacting emotionally, but I hope there is some some more definitive action possible on behalf of the NHL and the Flames. Because t really feels to me like they are simply hoping this will blow over.

Kane and Perry were under contract and acting on behalf of their respective teams as all players are when playing in the NHL.

None of these 5 were, and were under the purview of HC at the time of the incident.

At least that's my understanding.

I am the farthest thing from a lawyer however and merely parsing everything i have read/heard into what is actually happening.

Things may change as soon as Monday though depending on what the LPS comes out with in their press conference.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

You don't either. All we know is they have stated the players are on leave and being paid while the legal process plays out, and they will not comment further.

You believe ythe NHL was onside for terminating Perry's Contract because he allegedly made a drunken pass at a reporter, and Kane because his ex wife made allegations against him, but not 5 players who have actually been criminally charged with sexual assault.

You believe that?

The NHL and Flames are doing what they have always done, close their eyes and hope the problem goes away. Same with pain killers, same with CTE, same with a host of other issues.

Their motivation is simple. If they terminate these contracts they are admitting there is an issue with this type of behaviour and that there was at some level a coverup attempted or they were cool looking he other way for 20 months. I think they are still hoping for an acquittal so they can pretend nothing happened and then let these players fade into obscurity.

Everyone in hockey knew about this. But you are letting them off the hook because they were wilfully ignorant. Maybe they didn't find a problem because they purposefully didn't look for a problem.The entire league passed on Formenton and forced him to play in Europe. You cannot reconcile that fact with a belief that teams didn't know something really bad happened.

Saying the Flames have to wait for the courts to decide is just another way to enable this behavior. No wonder victims still don't come forward.

The Flames are not a party to this. They have no relationship or connection to the victim whatsoever.

They are a (very public) business that have a player in their system who has allegedly committed a crime. But they otherwise have nothing to do with it. Waiting for clarity, from the league, and from the courts, is really all they can do. Everything else is outrage in your head.

[Locke]

The real question here should be...: Can we trade Dube to the Edmonton Oilers?

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

The Flames are not a party to this. They have no relationship or connection to the victim whatsoever.

They are a (very public) business that have a player in their system who has allegedly committed a crime. But they otherwise have nothing to do with it. Waiting for clarity, from the league, and from the courts, is really all they can do. Everything else is outrage in your head.

I'm not saying they are legally responsible. But why have morality clauses in your agreement if not to use them. If they aren't for situations like this what are they for?

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

I'm not saying they are legally responsible. But why have morality clauses in your agreement if not to use them. If they aren't for situations like this what are they for?

Writing clauses into an agreement is one thing
Taking action using them is another altogether.
As others have said, there would be a ton of engagement with lawyers on this, for teams and the league to figure out the right course of action. Stakes and potential consequences are high if you get it wrong.

[transplant99]

Yup.....being pragmatic is a good way of doing things.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I disagree. Dube's statement sounds a lot different than most of the others, especially those of players who weren't charged. Most of the players not charged gave more strong wording indicating that they weren't involved and condemned the incident, or at the very least had alibies and didn't say much else. Dube's statement never said that he wasn't involved, only that he didn't do anything criminal. His agent also made veiled threats if anyone said otherwise, which I didn't see come from anyone else, other than Carter Hart's side.

Here is Dube's response. They never say that he wasn't involved, only that he didn't do any criminal wrongdoings, and he is cooperating. Carter Hart's reps gave a pretty similar statement.



Compare that to the others.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/players-stat...2018-1.6597503

This seems identical, for Jake Bean, Carter Hart, Colton Point, Kale Clague, Jordan Kyrou, Taylor Raddysh:


Toronto lawyer Scott Fenton wrote to Global News at the time that his firm represents one of these players and that he consulted with counsel for the other players. He declined to identify that player. He told Global:

"None of the players you reference engaged in any wrongdoing, all of the players co-operated fully with the independent London Police Service investigation in 2018, and all players were then cleared of any wrongdoing.

Almost identical to Dube's:

"All of CBC News' questions will be asked and answered during the pending NHL investigation. Dillon did not engage in any wrongdoing, and he co-operated fully with the independent London Police Service investigation in 2018, through which all players were then cleared of any wrongdoing.

[Poster]

Originally Posted by CFO

NHL needs to move to non guaranteed contracts.

For sure. Players who are under paid would be able to cancel their contract and find a better deal. Maybe they just don’t want to be on the team anymore so they can cancel the deal and sign somewhere else.

What about rookies on ELc? Can they also cancel their contract?


Maybe they should have some negotiated limitations on when the contract can be unilaterally terminated?


Lots to think about but I think it could make sense for all parties!

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

This seems identical, for Jake Bean, Carter Hart, Colton Point, Kale Clague, Jordan Kyrou, Taylor Raddysh:

Yes, but that was a blanket statement that covered all those players of which Hart was included. That is why I said Dube and Hart had similar statements, both of whom were charged. Then when you scroll down and read what the individual statements from the other players in that blanket statement, they are quite different.

You notice how they flat out say they were not involved in the alleged incident, not just leaving it as not doing anything criminal as Dube did, which was a big red flag. Saying you didn't do anything criminal is a lot different than saying you weren't involved at all.

Clague: "As a member of the 2018 Canadian world junior hockey team, I feel it is important to state I was not in attendance at the Hockey Canada Gala, nor was I in London, Ontario, on the day that the incident is alleged to have occurred."

Kyrou: "As a member of the 2018 world junior team, I am aware of allegations made against certain members of that team.

"I want to clearly state I did not attend the Hockey Canada Gala and was not in London, Ontario, at the time of the alleged incident. I am prepared to co-operate with any additional investigations in the future if necessary."

Point: "At that time, I co-operated fully with the initial Hockey Canada investigation. I was not in any way involved in the alleged incident and I am prepared to co-operate with any additional investigations in the future. Given the ongoing investigations, I will not provide any further public comments,"

Raddysh: "At that time, I co-operated fully with the initial Hockey Canada investigation. I was not in any way involved in the alleged incident and I am prepared to co-operate with any additional investigations in the future."

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

You don't either. All we know is they have stated the players are on leave and being paid while the legal process plays out, and they will not comment further.

You believe ythe NHL was onside for terminating Perry's Contract because he allegedly made a drunken pass at a reporter, and Kane because his ex wife made allegations against him, but not 5 players who have actually been criminally charged with sexual assault.

You believe that?

The NHL and Flames are doing what they have always done, close their eyes and hope the problem goes away. Same with pain killers, same with CTE, same with a host of other issues.

Their motivation is simple. If they terminate these contracts they are admitting there is an issue with this type of behaviour and that there was at some level a coverup attempted or they were cool looking he other way for 20 months. I think they are still hoping for an acquittal so they can pretend nothing happened and then let these players fade into obscurity.

Everyone in hockey knew about this. But you are letting them off the hook because they were wilfully ignorant. Maybe they didn't find a problem because they purposefully didn't look for a problem.The entire league passed on Formenton and forced him to play in Europe. You cannot reconcile that fact with a belief that teams didn't know something really bad happened.

Saying the Flames have to wait for the courts to decide is just another way to enable this behavior. No wonder victims still don't come forward.

OK man ...

Believe what you want to believe.

Bettman said the salaries will be paid, which sounds like a league directive to me.

I don't see a logic in a lot of the things you suggest the Flames are doing or thinking behind the scenes.

[taxbuster]

Wes Gilbertson article here from the Sun:
https://canoe.com/sports/explaining-...0-58cedcab018a


Reiterates what a lot of knowledgeable people have been saying here.


TL;DR "It's not that simple, whether you like it or not."

[Enoch Root]

The article explains the path being taken, and there is little to argue with it.

My only issue is that the teams are effectively being punished by having these contracts count against the cap. I think the NHL could improve the situation - and take some public opinion heat off the teams - by treating these as non-roster in some way, to remove them from the cap, and leave teams in a position to replace them.

Having them count for the cap is effectively punishing the teams, which I don't think is right.

[Jay Random]

All of the charged players are listed as non-roster on Capfriendly. I'm not positive, but I don't think they are counting against the cap at this point.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

All of the charged players are listed as non-roster on Capfriendly. I'm not positive, but I don't think they are counting against the cap at this point.

yes, non-roster, but he appears to be counting

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Poster

For sure. Players who are under paid would be able to cancel their contract and find a better deal. Maybe they just don’t want to be on the team anymore so they can cancel the deal and sign somewhere else.

What about rookies on ELc? Can they also cancel their contract?


Maybe they should have some negotiated limitations on when the contract can be unilaterally terminated?


Lots to think about but I think it could make sense for all parties!

Makes no sense for players for contracts to be non-guaranteed. And would effectively end NHL hockey in Alberta.

[cam_calderon]

Press conference at 2pm Eastern.

[Cycling76er]

Originally Posted by cam_calderon

Press conference at 2pm Eastern.

Press conference where? For what exactly?