[Trade] Elias Lindholm to VAN for Kuzmenko, Brzustewicz, Jurmo, 2024 1st, cond 2024 4th

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by devo22

what does Rikster think about Bowen Byram?

You leave beautiful Bowen Byram out of this! DON'T YOU DARE!

[Canada 02]

Originally Posted by united

Paraphrasing some notes from this morning's 32 Thoughts:

- Believes Bruins were in on Lindholm but would have only done a deal with an extension in place.
- Flames and Lindholm were about $1 million apart in talks throughout. Conroy presented a reasonable offer from the start rather than start negotiations with a lowball.
- Suggests that privately Lindholm was ready for a change of scenery.

- Flames happy to re-sign Hanifin but requested he inform them whether he is staying long-term by the end of the All-Star break.

- Toronto remains very interested in Tanev.
- Ottawa likely circles back to Tanev in the off-season.
- Quite a few other teams calling about Tanev as well.

- Nothing to report on either Vladar or Markstrom but the Flames are listening.

from that podcast, other teams who were interested - Rangers, Winnipeg, Carolina, Colorado for sure, and maybe Vegas
Elliotte's source in the OHL suggests there should not be a problem signing Brzustewicz

[InternationalVillager]

Originally Posted by Rikster

Let's not get carried away again.

I'm a big HB fan, have followed him since he was drafted and think in time he can play in the NHL.

But to suggest that his upside is an elite level offensive dman and PP1 QB at the NHL level or even in the minors is over the top and reeks of hyperbole.

Some scouting reports compare him to Liljegren in Toronto.

In Vancouver he was behind Hughes at the NHL level, Willander on the reserve list and I would argue behind Johansson in Abbotsford which made him expendable.

Prospects with the skill sets and upside you claim HB has usually go right from junior to the NHL, something I hope the Flames don't do.

He will need time in the minors to learn the pro game and develop his game to overcome his deficiencies which he will have to do if he is to play in the NHL.

Willander NHLe - 19
Brzustewicz NHLe - 35

The ONLY thing that Willander is ahead in right now is where he got drafted. He's playing on a loaded Boston College team with Celebrini and Hutson while producing middling results.

Brzustewicz is THE man on his team - leading in PTS, leading OHL for D in points and having a historic season.

To think that Willander is "ahead" is laughable. They are on par at worst.

[InternationalVillager]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

Lol, no they don't. Most young players take time to develop. What you are thinking about are players who are already at that level (Quinn Hughes, Cale Makar, etcetc) not having the skill set to potentially reach that level.

Correct.

Hughes = after D+1
Makar = after D+2
Fox = after D+3

Hunter Brzustewicz is currently in his D+1 season..... plenty of time.

[InternationalVillager]

https://theathletic.com/4697153/2023...r-brzustewicz/

Has anyone shared this? Absolutely fascinating article. Never knew he blew his shoulder out D-1 and that's why he fell behind on the draft charts. So he made the switch from U of Michigan which was his dream to OHL Kitchener to get as many games in as possible during his draft year.

Only to end up drafted by a NHL team with Quinn Hughes blocking his path. This might really be some kind of story if this guy turns into a stud.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by InternationalVillager

To think that Willander is "ahead" is laughable. They are on par at worst.

Willander is a better skater, he's a better defender, he does not shy away from physical interaction like Hunter.
Willander has gone from BC's 7th d man to playing on their top pairing as he has adjusted to the North American ice.
I think Hunter is great. There are reasons the US passed over him for the WJC despite leading the OHL in scoring.

Thinking they are equal is showing a distinct misunderstanding of their current development cycles, what their skill sets are likely to develop into and how likely they are to develop.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by InternationalVillager

Willander NHLe - 19
Brzustewicz NHLe - 35

The ONLY thing that Willander is ahead in right now is where he got drafted. He's playing on a loaded Boston College team with Celebrini and Hutson while producing middling results.

Brzustewicz is THE man on his team - leading in PTS, leading OHL for D in points and having a historic season.

To think that Willander is "ahead" is laughable. They are on par at worst.

Actually he has a few things ahead of him.

His overall game is much better. Bruz is thought of as having a ceiling of a second paring dman and PP specialist. Which is just fine.

But there is a reason the expects rank him behind Wiilander.

[InternationalVillager]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

Willander is a better skater, he's a better defender, he does not shy away from physical interaction like Hunter.
Willander has gone from BC's 7th d man to playing on their top pairing as he has adjusted to the North American ice.
I think Hunter is great. There are reasons the US passed over him for the WJC despite leading the OHL in scoring.

Thinking they are equal is showing a distinct misunderstanding of their current development cycles, what their skill sets are likely to develop into and how likely they are to develop.

Kid's a +30. what more could you possibly want.

I have yet to find a single scout who can use numbers to to debunk the case for Hunter while all I find on Willander is eye test remarks. When and IF Willander starts producing, I will recognize it. As of yet- it has not happened.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Yeah, if you leave the numbers aside and just watch the two players play hockey, it's not close, Willander is easily the better prospect. The issue with Brzustewicz is that at even strength, he doesn't have a very good chance at being a top 4 type of player. Meanwhile, while he has EXCELLENT offensive instincts, the actual puck skills aren't quite up to snuff for him to project as a PP1 QB in the NHL. He could be all of those things, of course - he could somehow turn into Adam Fox II - but it's very much on the thin end of the bell curve. The Canucks literally just went through this with Jack Rathbone; over a point per game in the AHL for his first two seasons (albeit the first one a short one).

This isn't to say I don't think he's a good prospect, he's just not the type of guy who you can pencil in as "well there's our offensive puck moving RHD for 20 minutes a night 3 years from now". It's more of a lottery ticket that you're hoping hits, and if it does, look out.

[midniteowl]

Wait Willander is playing in NCAA? Sorry, my ptsd kicked in and glad it's Brewsy instead.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by InternationalVillager

Kid's a +30. what more could you possibly want.

I don't even know what this means?

Originally Posted by InternationalVillager

I have yet to find a single scout who can use numbers to to debunk the case for Hunter while all I find on Willander is eye test remarks. When and IF Willander starts producing, I will recognize it. As of yet- it has not happened.

You want to compare numbers and production between OHL and NCAA? I don't know what to tell you, man. I think Hunter is a great prospect.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

This is the sort of analysis that leads people to think that Rob Schremp is going to score 2000 points in the NHL.

[Rikster]

Originally Posted by dino7c

That guy created his account in the playoffs of 04 to troll us...I'm going to assume this goes just about as well for him

Just making stuff up, eh?

My account was opened in 2004 when a friends son was in the Flames system and later played in the NHL.

If you were around then like your good buddy Blaster claims, you'd recall my suggesting that a kid named Giordano was a better prospect than Reghr Jr. was.

That suggestion didn't go over very well either.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

You want to compare numbers and production between OHL and NCAA? I don't know what to tell you, man.

NHLe already takes that into account. Brzustewicz still comes out way ahead.

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by Rikster

Just making stuff up, eh?

My account was opened in 2004 when a friends son was in the Flames system and later played in the NHL.

If you were around then like your good buddy Blaster claims, you'd recall my suggesting that a kid named Giordano was a better prospect than Reghr Jr. was.

That suggestion didn't go over very well either.

Blaster is a huge dweeb, I'm glad someone is finally checking him!

[Electricprez]

Everyone in here is a dweeb, except me. I am cool.
Dweebs. Big ol' dweeby dweebs.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by activeStick

Blaster is a huge dweeb, I'm glad someone is finally checking him!

I liked you better before you had a pet Canucks fan who attacked me!

Originally Posted by Electricprez

Everyone in here is a dweeb, except me. I am cool.
Dweebs. Big ol' dweeby dweebs.

Shut up, dweeb.

Originally Posted by Jay Random

NHLe already takes that into account. Brzustewicz still comes out way ahead.

Well, the more you know.

[Rikster]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

Ah, so we agree!


No, saying that he is surefire going to be an elite level offensive dman and PP1 would be hyperbole. Saying that his skill set and potential are there is saying "he needs to be developed, but the ability is there"


And some people have compared his skill set to that of Cale Makar with less polish. Development will decide who he becomes as a pro.


Hey we agree again!


Lol, no they don't. Most young players take time to develop. What you are thinking about are players who are already at that level (Quinn Hughes, Cale Makar, etcetc) not having the skill set to potentially reach that level.



OH hey, we agree again! It doesn't change what he can develop into!

Come on Blaster, you are either trolling Flame fans or think Canucks management is really, really dumb for moving a prospect with that upside for what could be a rental?

Or maybe you think Willander and Johansson will be better than Makar which is why they dealt HB?

All I'm saying is pump the breaks on your over the top assessment of the kid, he's a good prospect to have in a system that is needing puck movers on the back end which fits Calgary's prospect pool but....

Regarding his stats in the OHL, don't forget that he is playing on a powerhouse of a team and the vast majority of his assists are secondary points.

When he turn pro, his numbers will likely fall off a cliff which shouldn't set off alarm bells, rather it should be expected.

He lost a year of development with the shoulder injury and hasn't been able to catch up to the likes of Lane Hutson, Seamus Casey or Ryan Chesley so he will need extra time to become a pro.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Rikster

Come on Blaster, you are either trolling Flame fans or think Canucks management is really, really dumb for moving a prospect with that upside for what could be a rental?

Nope, I am literally doing what you did which is take a scouting report off the internet and using a comparable that the scouting report put in it.

Originally Posted by Rikster

Or maybe you think Willander and Johansson will be better than Makar which is why they dealt HB?

I think they'll be better than a watered down Cale Makar, yes. Well, Willander will be.

Originally Posted by Rikster

All I'm saying is pump the breaks on your over the top assessment of the kid, he's a good prospect to have in a system that is needing puck movers on the back end which fits Calgary's prospect pool but....

All I am saying is don't undersell what type of player Hunter has the skill set to be. You're being overly bearish and I am responding with overly bullish.

Originally Posted by Rikster

Regarding his stats in the OHL, don't forget that he is playing on a powerhouse of a team and the vast majority of his assists are secondary points.

I'm not the one arguing this.

Originally Posted by Rikster

When he turn pro, his numbers will likely fall off a cliff which shouldn't set off alarm bells, rather it should be expected.

Correct.

Originally Posted by Rikster

He lost a year of development with the shoulder injury and hasn't been able to catch up to the likes of Lane Hutson, Seamus Casey or Ryan Chesley so he will need extra time to become a pro.

Probably true, but the way he is performing this year is a sign is he is not as far behind as he could have been considering the injury.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Rikster

Come on Blaster, you are either trolling Flame fans or think Canucks management is really, really dumb for moving a prospect with that upside for what could be a rental?

Or maybe you think Willander and Johansson will be better than Makar which is why they dealt HB?

All I'm saying is pump the breaks on your over the top assessment of the kid, he's a good prospect to have in a system that is needing puck movers on the back end which fits Calgary's prospect pool but....

Regarding his stats in the OHL, don't forget that he is playing on a powerhouse of a team and the vast majority of his assists are secondary points.

When he turn pro, his numbers will likely fall off a cliff which shouldn't set off alarm bells, rather it should be expected.

He lost a year of development with the shoulder injury and hasn't been able to catch up to the likes of Lane Hutson, Seamus Casey or Ryan Chesley so he will need extra time to become a pro.

Powerhouse team? They are good, but they have the 4th best record in the league - not exactly blowing it out. And as for HB specifically, he leads the team in points and there are only 2 other guys within 20 points of him. You're trying to make it sound like he's getting secondary assists on an offensive juggernaut - HE is the bus driver on that team.

Also, this was your quote earlier in the thread - now that Blaster said something nice about HB, suddenly you're talking like he's a mediocre prospect, and nothing even close to Willander.

Originally Posted by Rikster

Given the year he is having in the OHL, not sure why the Americans passed on him for the World Junior tournament, but of all the pieces leaving Vancouver in the deal for Lindstrom, he was the one I wish wasn't included.