[Trade] Habs trade Monahan to the Jets for a 2024 1st and cond 2027 3rd

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

With what dough?

this is what I was saying to the "hate to say it crowd" last week

other teams will be adding far better players than Perry

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

So Tanev all but certainly returns that 1st right? He must.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

Or....

Price went up because he was the next best piece left on the market.

This was their price for Monahan from the get go. Like I said a week ago when this information leaked, there is no way they get it unless a team panics.
Jets blinked.
It could be worse as again, it is going to be a very late first, but I think they could have paid less and got an equivalent player from someone else. They paid for a name and a mirage of goals.

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

So Tanev all but certainly returns that 1st right? He must.

That's the Flames' ask apparently. I think a team will pay it.

[Enoch Root]

It's easy to dump on Treliving in hindsight, but there was some really unfortunate timing that played into it (because the Flames curse dictates that this must be so)

You have the Gaudreau and Tkachuk events, so Treliving makes a trade for Tkachuk, and gets what the vast majority of the hockey world thought was a great return, considering the circumstances.
And due to the makeup of the team, mostly built for the now, he got a 'now' return.
And with the recent fiasco of Gaudreau leaving for nothing, he made sure to ink Huberdeau immediately (at the time, most agreed that was the prudent play.
Treliving also saw that he needed another C, since Monahan wasn't able to fill that role, and Kadri was available, so he went out and got him. Again, this was a reasonable decision, considering the win-now makeup of the team.
In order to make room for Kadri, Treliving decided to move Monahan.
Unfortunately, all of this happened during the year where cap space was at its highest premium, and worst pressure. And as it turned out, he moved Monahan for cap space at the moment in history when it was the most expensive to do so.

At the time, those decisions were all reasonable - you could argue whether they were good, but they were at least reasonable. Except for the Monahan one - that was a steep price to pay.

And then the team fell flat on its face.

And say what you want about the decisions, we shouldn't blame Treliving for the team doing that. Their play last year is on them. These decisions you can blame Treliving for, but not that.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Monahan was legitimately playing better than Lindholm this season...more question marks with his health though obviously. Western teams "loading up" and selling futures is good for the Flames long term.

What is this based on?

He has same amount of ES goals as Huberdeau. I love Monahan but he is more of a PP specialist at this point. Getting PP points on a bad team. Lindholm is more than that IMO.

Or maybe this is just an indictment of Lindy's play this season which I definitely agree has been uninspired.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

What is this based on?

Based on trying to dunk on a Canucks fan. Get on board.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

What is this based on?

He has same amount of ES goals as Huberdeau. I love Monahan but he is more of a PP specialist at this point. Getting PP points on a bad team. Lindholm is more than that IMO.

Or maybe this is just an indictment of Lindy's play this season which I definitely agree has been uninspired.

reality, stats...more goals, points
I didn't know only ES goals counted in the NHL...thank god because that makes the Flames a better team

I wouldn't want to pay a haul for either but if you just named them player A and player B I think its fair to say Monahan has been better this year. Like have you been watching the Flames? Lindholm has been one of the least noticeable players on the team. Every time I watch the Habs Monahan is in the middle of things.

Even in the fancy stats Lindholm has been one of the Flames worst players. His value was 100% reputation of 2 way play because we hadn't seen it this year.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by dino7c

this is what I was saying to the "hate to say it crowd" last week

other teams will be adding far better players than Perry

Perry is table scraps compared to what the other Canadian teams have gone out to get.

Any one really concerned what the 39 year old with disciplinary issues that has barely played games this year will do for that team? I'm not. The hockey player has probably aged like milk in the Sahara.

WIN and VAN have done well for their immediate needs. The paper tigers riding their coaching chance on a soft schedule are what we thought they were.

[Robbob]

Good deal for Montreal, but attributing both 1st rounds back to GMBT isn't fair. You have to look at it as the contract BT traded, and not the eventual UFA signing. The pick as it relates to the Flames is that Montreal got a 1st round pick for 25 games and 6M cap hit for Sean Monahan. It would be like somehow attributing blame to Vancouver for picks Calgary may get for Tanev.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Robbob

Good deal for Montreal, but attributing both 1st rounds back to GMBT isn't fair. You have to look at it as the contract BT traded, and not the eventual UFA signing. The pick as it relates to the Flames is that Montreal got a 1st round pick for 25 games and 6M cap hit for Sean Monahan. It would be like somehow attributing blame to Vancouver for picks Calgary may get for Tanev.

Especially if they send him back to Vancouver lol

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Hey, Monahan went to a city as boring as him! How about that?

[SuperMatt18]

I think the real argument based on Lindholm and Monahan's play this year is that neither guy probably deserved to return a 1st based on their play this year alone.

For Lindholm it's an overpayment based on past performance.

For Monahan it's an overpayment based a bit on inflated stats due to usage and PP.

In the end Lindholm's defense play and ability to play a 200ft game (historically) makes it a worth while risk.

For Monahan I do worry a bit he was a guy inflated by situation and Winnipeg will have buyers remorse. Love Monahan though and hope he crushes it with Winnipeg.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

What is this based on?

He has same amount of ES goals as Huberdeau. I love Monahan but he is more of a PP specialist at this point. Getting PP points on a bad team. Lindholm is more than that IMO.

Or maybe this is just an indictment of Lindy's play this season which I definitely agree has been uninspired.

The bigger question is who do you think is more likely to contribute/impact the game more moving forward? My money would be on Lindholm.

[Tron_fdc]

I kind of look at it like the Habs "bought" 2 1sts and a conditional 3rd with their cap space. They got that space by being a terrible team.


Not everyone is going to capitalize at the local scratch n dent like they did but it was a job well done. They got that old Maytag going again and sold high.

I'm legit happy for Monahan. Great player and great human.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by Tron_fdc

I kind of look at it like the Habs "bought" 2 1sts and a conditional 3rd with their cap space. They got that space by being a terrible team.


Not everyone is going to capitalize at the local scratch n dent like they did but it was a job well done. They got that old Maytag going again and sold high.

I'm legit happy for Monahan. Great player and great human.

They bought one 1st from Calgary. Monahan could have gone anywhere last summer and that team could have done this, but I guess he liked Montreal.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by dino7c

reality, stats...more goals, points
I didn't know only ES goals counted in the NHL...thank god because that makes the Flames a better team

I wouldn't want to pay a haul for either but if you just named them player A and player B I think its fair to say Monahan has been better this year. Like have you been watching the Flames? Lindholm has been one of the least noticeable players on the team. Every time I watch the Habs Monahan is in the middle of things.

Even in the fancy stats Lindholm has been one of the Flames worst players. His value was 100% reputation of 2 way play because we hadn't seen it this year.

Come on dino. I have seen you shout that there is more to evaluating a a player than goals so I think you're using the argument that suits you in the moment frankly.

I guess since Monahan is twice removed from the Flames we can discuss how great he is.

Lindholm, just once removed, gets the Tkachuk treatment.

Anyway Conroy did great in the Lindholm trade. And I would love to see this organization accomplish something like what Montreal did with Monahan. They end up plus two first round picks and are down nothing of substance.

I hope Conroy keeps plenty of cap space for the off season to pull off something similar.

[getbak]

Looks like he's switching back to #23 with the Jorts.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

You think Monahan is worth a 1st?

I think the prices are high now, which is good for the Flames as sellers.

I don't think Winnipeg panicked, any more than Vancouver panicked - they both went out and added.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Come on dino. I have seen you shout that there is more to evaluating a a player than goals so I think you're using the argument that suits you in the moment frankly.

I guess since Monahan is twice removed from the Flames we can discuss how great he is.

Lindholm, just once removed, gets the Tkachuk treatment.

Anyway Conroy did great in the Lindholm trade. And I would love to see this organization accomplish something like what Montreal did with Monahan. They end up plus two first round picks and are down nothing of substance.

I hope Conroy keeps plenty of cap space for the off season to pull off something similar.

I didn't say either guy was great right now

Player A has been better than player B this season...maybe slightly, I don't think it's a stretch at all.

Hilarious you think me saying Lindholm has been bad this season is because he was traded...like where have you been? any honest Flames fan has been saying Lindholm has been terrible for months. I have been ragging on Lindholm since October. I said after the Oiler game Lindholm was like 10th on my list of guys I expected to have a big game against a rival.

Tkachuk gets the Tkachuk treatment because he ####ing deserves it...drafted, developed, bailed

[CSharp]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

It's easy to dump on Treliving in hindsight, but there was some really unfortunate timing that played into it (because the Flames curse dictates that this must be so)

You have the Gaudreau and Tkachuk events, so Treliving makes a trade for Tkachuk, and gets what the vast majority of the hockey world thought was a great return, considering the circumstances.
And due to the makeup of the team, mostly built for the now, he got a 'now' return.
And with the recent fiasco of Gaudreau leaving for nothing, he made sure to ink Huberdeau immediately (at the time, most agreed that was the prudent play.
Treliving also saw that he needed another C, since Monahan wasn't able to fill that role, and Kadri was available, so he went out and got him. Again, this was a reasonable decision, considering the win-now makeup of the team.
In order to make room for Kadri, Treliving decided to move Monahan.
Unfortunately, all of this happened during the year where cap space was at its highest premium, and worst pressure. And as it turned out, he moved Monahan for cap space at the moment in history when it was the most expensive to do so.

At the time, those decisions were all reasonable - you could argue whether they were good, but they were at least reasonable. Except for the Monahan one - that was a steep price to pay.

And then the team fell flat on its face.

And say what you want about the decisions, we shouldn't blame Treliving for the team doing that. Their play last year is on them. These decisions you can blame Treliving for, but not that.

Well, we can't go back in time to correct anything and the 20-20 hindsight all points to those events from Tre making bad decisions that pretty much led to one another and then other bad decisions arising that were already bad. If you lose 2 of your top stars (one for nothing) and the makeup of the team tells you that the team is not a cup contender anymore and the upcoming draft the following year was a generational draft year, one would hope that this would be a huge opportunity consideration to actually build for the future and not just for the present. Nope, Tre still pursued trades to go for the playoff run. He had all the chances during mid-season to sell and tank. In the end, we come to the same point as we did 2 years ago. From the time that Tre took over, the Flames rebuild process pretty much stopped. It was like Sutter fitting in pieces that may fit and hope to make the playoffs every year just to get bounced in the first round, that's it. This is something that I hope Conroy has learned, never lowball your superstar franchise players and don't go out looking for a superstar goalie to mask the deficiencies of the team.