[Trade] Elias Lindholm to VAN for Kuzmenko, Brzustewicz, Jurmo, 2024 1st, cond 2024 4th

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Rikster

I'm a big fan of both Raty and Brzustewicz and said that i was disappointed to see him included in the trade, but the upside of each player is very different.

Raty has already played in and has 2 goals and 3 points in 15 NHL games.

Where the 1st round pick lands, coupled with where the strength of the draft is expected to fall off does impact the quality of the deal, not sure why you would suggest otherwise.

I didn't suggest the placement of the pick didn't matter, I said it is what could tilt the value of the Horvat trade being better depending on your view of the main prospects in the trade.

Raty wasn't really progressing when he was traded and I think he tops out out as a middle six guy if he sticks in the NHL.

Brzustewicz probably goes in the late 1st round now basis a way too early re-draft. He could definitely bust but I prefer taking the prospect that progressed.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by dino7c

IF the Canucks win the cup it is well worth it for them...if not they just lost assets for nothing. Life of being a deadline buyer.

Unfortunately for them, winning championships is not in that organization's DNA.

2010-11 team still had the better shot, I think. But we'll see.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by All In Good Time

didnt they have to clear the space for this trade too?

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

I don’t know but it’s not much

After the trade, the Canucks have about $1.7 million in cap space with three players on LTIR. If they had kept Kuzmenko and added Lindholm, they'd be $3.8 million over.

There was no way they could add Lindholm without moving out a fairly expensive roster player.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

Unfortunately for them, winning championships is not in that organization's DNA.

2010-11 team still had the better shot, I think. But we'll see.

10-11 was a better team but in a deeper league.


This season, they're not as good but there are no teams clearly a head above. That's why you take your shot.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by dino7c

dude Lindholm has 9 goals playing top line minutes haha

this guy, "couldn't get quality"

Let's take it as far as we can...

Kuzmenko has been in the league for two years, so let's compare stats for that term:

Kuzmenko: 124 games, 47G. 48A, 95P
Lindholm..: 129 games, 31G, 65A, 96P

Obviouly Lindholm has a significantly more well-rounded game (no comparison), but the production is what it is.

[Rikster]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

These are all things the Flames traded for, yes. What did you expect an underperforming UFA with a history of good play to get?

Conroy did supremely well here. So did Allvin. This is what you call "A good trade"

You seem to want to make excuses for the quality of the return and then in the same breath claim it was a very good haul?

I'm pointing out that quantity doesn't make it a haul or an extremely good deal if the quantity has little value.

A late 1st and Brzustewicz for Lindholm is pretty much how Id' sum it up.

Kuzmenko is a cap dump for the Canucks and where Calgary is in their window will be irrelevant to them in the long term which is why I think they deal him before he becomes another distraction for them.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

After the trade, the Canucks have about $1.7 million in cap space with three players on LTIR. If they had kept Kuzmenko and added Lindholm, they'd be $3.8 million over.

There was no way they could add Lindholm without moving out a fairly expensive roster player.

I can't believe we didn't get Petterson instead of Kuzmenko. Talk about abject failure or what.

[butterfly]

Flames should have 3 of the top 40 picks now. Let's rip some more.

[camm13]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Very, because they are facing a huge raise for Pettersson

And Hronek after Petey gets done. Guy has fit like a glove as a D partner for Hughes.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by dino7c

IF the Canucks win the cup it is well worth it for them...if not they just lost assets for nothing. Life of being a deadline buyer.

I think the mindset that rentals only pay off if cups are won isn't correct. I get it, there's only one cup winner, but IMO from a business lens AND from a fan experience lens, I'd say seasons where multiple rounds are won, are actually worth it, even if it doesn't mean a cup.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Didn't realize the Canucks were big cap circumvention players this year!

Not that I care too much, but that probably makes Oilers fans' blood boil. If the Canucks are the ones to flush those turds this year, I imagine it will be high on their list of excuses downplaying a Canucks victory.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by dino7c

dude Lindholm has 9 goals playing top line minutes haha

this guy, "couldn't get quality"

Rhett mentioned it a few times on Barn Burner, that to him, Lindholm was playing like a guy waiting to get traded. It's not that he was mailing it in, but that stuff hangs a cloud over players and affects their play.

It sounds like the plan is to play Lindholm with Pettersen, and now that the cloud is lifted, I fully expect Lindholm to start producing more.

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by dino7c

there's always one I guess lol
Flames will trade him for an asset next season, or sign him and that means it's going well.

This trade is Win/Win if the Canucks win the cup

It's a win for the Flames no matter what, which to be fair is a lot easier to get a win when you are selling

Not quite. The trade is a loss for me if it helps Vancouver win the cup.

It still goes:
Dumpsville;
Centre of the Universe; and
Riot Town.

in terms of where I don't want the Cup to end up.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

Didn't realize the Canucks were big cap circumvention players this year!

At the moment, 14 teams are over the cap and using LTIR. It's not circumvention, it's the normal way of doing business.

Look at who the Canucks have on LTIR: Tucker Poolman, Guillaume Brisebois, and Phillip Di Giuseppe. None of those guys are moving the needle if they do come back for the playoffs.

[Wastedyouth]

I must be in the minority of Flames fans who doesn't even see much to hate in the current iteration of the Canucks.

The Kesler/Burrows era was a truly stupid ass group of turds. But this new one doesn't even register. I am not even sure I would be upset if they won a cup.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

10-11 was a better team but in a deeper league.


This season, they're not as good but there are no teams clearly a head above. That's why you take your shot.

That's fair.

The west is also questionable at best (whereas it was highly contested back then). IMO a couple paper tigers in there that could feasibly fizzle out in the postseason because they do so routinely (WIN, EDM), and Colorado's center depth and goaltending are question marks despite their talent level. I'm not sure what to make of Dallas, I've seen both very good and very poor games from them. Vegas will ramp up when it's time to go, and will probably be the toughest out once again.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Rikster

You seem to want to make excuses for the quality of the return and then in the same breath claim it was a very good haul?

What? I'm not making excuses for anything. The type of return that Lindholm got was the type of return Lindholm was going to get. The Flames got a 1st round pick. A good prospect. An NHL player and some spare parts. This is a good haul for an expiring UFA on a down year. This is very close to what Horvat, an expiring UFA in a career year, got. The main difference being we got the Islanders top prospect because the Islanders have nothing. Raty isn't an NHL player and unless he fixes his skating will not be.

Originally Posted by Rikster

I'm pointing out that quantity doesn't make it a haul or an extremely good deal if the quantity has little value.

Quantity is a quality in and of its self. But the quantity here has value.

Originally Posted by Rikster

A late 1st and Brzustewicz for Lindholm is pretty much how Id' sum it up.

All the teams looking to trade for Lindholm were going to be providing a late 1st. Look at the list of teams who were apparently interested. Three of them are currently 1 - 2 - 3 in the NHL standings. Two of them have lead the NHL standings are various points this year.

Originally Posted by Rikster

Kuzmenko is a cap dump for the Canucks and where Calgary is in their window will be irrelevant to them in the long term which is why I think they deal him before he becomes another distraction for them.

They probably do deal him, but I doubt he becomes a distraction.

[devo22]

when you compare production, also important to look at ice time (rank among forwards on team):

Kuzmenko: 10:54 EV TOI/GP (12th), 3:27 PP TOI/GP (4th)
Lindholm: 15:04 EV TOI/GP (1st), 3:18 PP TOI/GP (2nd)

Lindholm has scored 9 goals, Kuzmenko has 8. It's reasonable to expect Kuzmenko to up his numbers in Calgary if given more opportunity.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by devo22

Lindholm has scored 9 goals, Kuzmenko has 8. It's reasonable to expect Kuzmenko to up his numbers in Calgary if given more opportunity.

And if the leash is taken off.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Rikster

You seem to want to make excuses for the quality of the return and then in the same breath claim it was a very good haul?

I'm pointing out that quantity doesn't make it a haul or an extremely good deal if the quantity has little value.

A late 1st and Brzustewicz for Lindholm is pretty much how Id' sum it up.

Kuzmenko is a cap dump for the Canucks and where Calgary is in their window will be irrelevant to them in the long term which is why I think they deal him before he becomes another distraction for them.

This trade about of a win-win trade as it gets.
The most likely scenario is that the Canucks don't get a cup and the Flames get no NHL players out of the return across all the pieces they got.
They at least have multiple shots now and got about as good of a prospect as teams ever do in deadline trades.
Pretty standard fare for a deadline rental. Show us the examples of a rental playing mediocre hockey getting a wildly better return or go to a Canuck's forum if you want to talk down the return lol.