[Trade] Elias Lindholm to VAN for Kuzmenko, Brzustewicz, Jurmo, 2024 1st, cond 2024 4th

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Very, because they are facing a huge raise for Pettersson

Probably also why a Lindholm extension isn’t even a priority right now. They need to lock Pettersson down, and work out from there.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Good haul for a rental in a down season.

Good for the canucks to clear cap for next year which they need, and bring in a guy that might address a now need.

Not everything is a fleecing one way or the other. But from strictly a Flames future perspective, this is in the upper end of what (realistic) Flames fans were likely expecting.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Yeah, double edged sword if Lindholm was pacing the same as Horvat. I think they would have gave him a stupid contract unless he refused and just moved up his number.

Start of a new direction for the Flames

If Lindholm doesn't look like a pouty baby, the Flames are probably not as bad off as they are right now.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

Hopefully he brings you guys some success because I doubt he sticks around.

The Canucks have made this trade with the realistic expectation that he is a rental.


Could they sign him? Sure. Will they? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. It's not why they traded for him.

[D as in David]

Who were Kuzmenko's most common linemates last season?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by butterfly

Fair. And yeah, I don't think we can make the assumption either but there's no tidy dataset to use to quickly analyze this.

People will complain about it too. For example, Treliving acquired Lindholm. Peters used Lindholm as a RW and Sutter used Lindholm as a C. So, did we have a RH C the whole time, none of the time, or part of the time? If coaching decisions trump management decisions then it becomes difficult to evaluate the goals of management.

Jackets used Laine at C at one point. Does that mean Laine is a C for the purposes of this exercise?

Agreed on all that - it is difficult to isolate who are Cs and who are not.

For clarity, I agree with you about the original post: suggesting that Stanley Cup winning teams need a right-handed C is a stretch. Without doing the math, I would guess that the percentage of cup-winning teams with an RC (76%) is probably statistically no different than the percentage of all teams with an RC. In other words, no predictive power whatsoever.

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

The Canucks have made this trade with the realistic expectation that he is a rental.


Could they sign him? Sure. Will they? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. It's not why they traded for him.

That's fair. I think you paid more than you needed for a guy who just isn't a driver of play without elite talent around him. But you have elite talent, so he's gonna be a great fit.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

The big use the Flames have for cap space next year is for this summer to take the other side of something like the Monahan trade. That cap hit might be worth a first then, vs now when it looks more like the 2nd year of Kuz got them the conditional 3rd/4th.

I'm not saying it was a bad trade, but taking Kuz is almost certainly more valuable to the Canucks than retaining on Lindholm would have been.

They have 25 million of cap space next year and no one to give raises to outside of maybe signing Hanifin. I prefer the Kuzmenko pick up to retention because he might be a good reclamation project and they have 25 million of cap space next year and no one to give a raise assuming they trade Hanifin. Even if they sign Hanifin they will have 22 million of cap space.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Very, because they are facing a huge raise for Pettersson

It’s important but they have time to figure it out. Myers will be gone , that’s another 6M saving

Some Nucks fans even say they can sign Lindholm

[dino7c]

IF the Canucks win the cup it is well worth it for them...if not they just lost assets for nothing. Life of being a deadline buyer.

[Rikster]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Blue chip prospects don't get traded for rentals. Especially a rental in a tail spin. People are happy with the return because a lot were expecting a 1st + a B prospect for a retained Lindholm. It is recency bias but Brzustewicz looks clsoer to an A prospect than a B prospect.

Depending on your view of Brzustewicz vs Raty it is either the same as the Horvat trade or a little worse because of where the 1st round pick is likely to fall. This reads to a me as a Canuck fan downplaying what they paid for a rental.

I'm a big fan of both Raty and Brzustewicz and said that i was disappointed to see him included in the trade, but the upside of each player is very different.

Raty has already played in and has 2 goals and 3 points in 15 NHL games.

Where the 1st round pick lands, coupled with where the strength of the draft is expected to fall off does impact the quality of the deal, not sure why you would suggest otherwise.

[All In Good Time]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

It’s important but they have time to figure it out. Myers will be gone , that’s another 6M saving

Some Nucks fans even say they can sign Lindholm

didnt they have to clear the space for this trade too?

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Bonded

They have 25 million of cap space next year and no one to give raises to outside of maybe signing Hanifin. I prefer the Kuzmenko pick up to retention because he might be a good reclamation project and they have 25 million of cap space next year and no one to give a raise assuming they trade Hanifin. Even if they sign Hanifin they will have 22 million of cap space.

Yeah Kuzmenko is not just a cap dump, more of an experiment

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

If Lindholm doesn't look like a pouty baby, the Flames are probably not as bad off as they are right now.

Yeah, the worst case for the Flames was him having a hot start, re-signing, and then returning to pout mode lol

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

That's fair. I think you paid more than you needed for a guy who just isn't a driver of play without elite talent around him. But you have elite talent, so he's gonna be a great fit.

Lindholm wasn't the target just for his production. He plays the bumper on the power play which is the one position the Canucks have struggled to fill since Horvat left, trying Boeser (better net front), Miller (better on the half wall), and Kuzmenko (better net front). He was brought in because he wins draws. He was brought in because he kills penalties.

He checks every box for what the Canucks needed in a forward right now.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Rikster

I'm a big fan of both Raty and Brzustewicz and said that i was disappointed to see him included in the trade, but the upside of each player is very different.

Raty has already played in and has 2 goals and 3 points in 15 NHL games.

Where the 1st round pick lands, coupled with where the strength of the draft is expected to fall off does impact the quality of the deal, not sure why you would suggest otherwise.

The draft is the draft and it would have been a late 1st from any other team. The Hawks were not looking for Lindholm guy. You aren't going to convince us this wasn't a home run for the Flames so if that is your goal move along. If the Flames traded him to the Avs the picks is probably worse IMO since I think they would win the cup...still might. Canucks are't exactly playoff tested it might not go well. Take it from us, winning the division or the west doesn't mean #### the day the playoffs start. First and 2nd round series will probably be a coin flip.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by All In Good Time

didnt they have to clear the space for this trade too?

I don’t know but it’s not much

[Blaster86]

Don't think of Kuzmenko as a cap dump. Think of him as cap equalization.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by dino7c

dude Lindholm has 9 goals playing top line minutes haha

this guy, "couldn't get quality"

It's a good point.

Lindy has 1 more goal with much greater opportunity than Kuzmenko has likely been granted to this point.

You can usually tell when a fan is downplaying the value of the pieces going the other way (when they wouldn't hesitate to speak positively of them the day prior). A little jilted, to say the least. Even goes out of his way to erase the value of a 1st. Most drafts upper tiers fall off well before that point even in a good year. A 1st is still a decent ticket though.

And I like that he has Brz potentially an NHLer as a footnote.

It's a pretty damn good piece, bud. His value is probably dampened more than it should among that fanbase only because they're already sitting on a guy like Hughes. But this kid is producing like Hughes in his D+1 and that's nothing to scoff at. I like how hf frames it as "selling high". He's still a kid and developing, I'm not sure that term means what they think it means. "Selling high" is something you say about a vet, when you know what they are and have a career average as a baseline.

A lot of residual Benning PTSD in that fanbase for sure. They're desperate to spin it in a way that helps affirm that they're in a better place now. But there's a higher floor to this trade for the Flames (a number of controlled assets) than there is for the Canucks (UFA rental that may or may not pan out as intended).

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

It's a good point.

Lindy has 1 more goal with much greater opportunity than Kuzmenko has likely been granted to this point.

Kuzmenko was given every opportunity and was getting top line power play minutes on a top power play. A bigger issue in his production was Brock Boeser was better at the net front position than he was.

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

And I like that he has Brz potentially an NHLer as a footnote.

It's a pretty damn good piece, bud. His value is probably dampened more than it should among that fanbase only because they're already sitting on a guy like Hughes. But this kid is producing like Hughes in his D+1 and that's nothing to scoff at. I like how hf frames it as "selling high". He's still a kid and developing, I'm not sure that term means what they think it means.

Bustowicsz (as I will now refer to him, a change from Bobbyorrtowicsz yesterday morning) has done incredibly well for himself in the OHL. He is trending in the right direction but still has a lot to work on. I think he is a great get for the Flames.

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

A lot of residual Benning PTSD in that fanbase for sure. They're desperate to spin it in a way that helps affirm that they're in a better place now. But there's a higher floor to this trade for the Flames (a number of controlled assets) than there is for the Canucks (UFA rental that may or may not pan out as intended).

Please don't say that name. It triggers me.