Hart, McLeod, Dube, Foote, Formenton charged with sexual assault

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by iggyloob12

As much as I don't like the team's initial statement, it's too simplistic to blame it on the PR folks alone. I work in the industry and have experience dealing with sensitive issues and crisis management. You make your recommendations to leadership but they almost always have influence on the final wording, as does legal in certain cases.

Dube's implication with the junior team was a known issue they would have been monitoring and should have considered when crafting their original statement, regardless of what the player told the team about his leave request.

Someone with the team thought it was a good idea to connect the statement to mental health vs. leaving it ambiguous. It's hard to know where the blame lies from the outside, but lots of people should have known better (and maybe some said so and were not listened to).

This seems like a very balanced position and a reasonable criticism of the team's approach.

Statements like this shouldn't result in broad claims of faux outrage and people needing a throat to choke.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

There is very little overlap between ‘good media’ and off-the-cuff emotional Twitter posts.

Ahhh yes, criticizing the Flames approach here is just irrational expression of emotions. While defending the Flames isn't clouded at all by an irrational emotional attachment to laundry.

[Paulie Walnuts]

A CHicago beat writer chiming in is something.

It seems like most of the outrage that should be directed towards Dube is being sent the Flames way.

The Flames are not being charged for sexual assault. The organization didn't hatch a grand scheme to hide sexual assault.

The statement may have been poorly worded now, but I don't think they intended to do Dube any favaours citing his mental health.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Doesn't a large % of the media world literally lead the faux outrage charge on a daily basis?

For a lot of people in the media today, their social media followers and hits are more important than whatever job they’re being paid to do for their current employer. So yeah, they have big incentives to generate outrage and clicks.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Ahhh yes, criticizing the Flames approach here is just irrational expression of emotions. While defending the Flames isn't clouded at all by an irrational emotional attachment to laundry.

I think I speak for a lot of posters here when I say it wouldn’t make any difference to me at all if the Flyers had released that statement instead of the Flames. I don’t feel there’s anything wrong with bad people seeking mental health treatment, or with a team taking an agent at their word that’s why a player is asking for leave.

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Both Kane and Perry had their contracts terminated for misconduct while they were members of the team. I'm not sure that would count as a precedent to terminate a contract for something that happened years before the contract was signed.

I don't recall any situation in the past similar enough to this one that the NHL could reliably use it as a precedent.

Then you take the opportunity to make the precedent here - or like the Kane situation there is a grievance and you are forced to pay Dube out. Either way doing nothing is a terrible look.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I think I speak for a lot of posters here when I say it wouldn’t make any difference to me at all if the Flyers had released that statement instead of the Flames. I don’t feel there’s anything wrong with bad people seeking mental health treatment, or with a team taking an agent at their word that’s why a player is asking for leave.

I agree. If that was the reason Dube and his agent gave and the Flames didn't know that a call to surrender to police was imminent, then whatever. If the Flames did know Dube was about to be charged, then they should have been more careful about the message.

Whether or not we think they should, the optics matter. It's unfortunate that Dube was the first one to take a leave, because if he wasn't, I think the Flames would have been more thoughtful with their messaging.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

A CHicago beat writer chiming in is something.

That Chicago beat writer was also very critical of the Blackhawks organization when that was going down.

So not really just picking his spot here.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Ahhh yes, criticizing the Flames approach here is just irrational expression of emotions. While defending the Flames isn't clouded at all by an irrational emotional attachment to laundry.

That's not what I said. I said they were emotional Twitter posts. Money quotes:

‘The Flames are really dumb.’

‘This horrific circumstance.’

‘Looks really bad.’

‘Truly grotesque.’

Good journalists don't talk about what they feel; they tell the story and let the audience have its own reaction. Talking about your own feelings is, in fact, emotional, and it is not good journalism. Making a short statement of opinion on Twitter is not journalism at all.

But expressing one's outrage (‘faux’ or not) seems to be the primary function of Twitter. A good journalist (there are still a few around) would be very well advised to say nothing on that platform, except ‘I have a new story up about X. Here is the link.’

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

Then you take the opportunity to make the precedent here - or like the Kane situation there is a grievance and you are forced to pay Dube out. Either way doing nothing is a terrible look.

But you have to do it within a 24-hour news cycle or it doesn't count, right?

Nothing says ‘good management’ like reacting instantly to difficult circumstances when an instant reaction is not required.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Good journalists don't talk about what they feel; they tell the story and let the audience have its own reaction. Talking about your own feelings is, in fact, emotional, and it is not good journalism.

The best journalists talk about what the feel. How others feel. I can't imagine wanting journalists just to report facts without any commentary.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

A CHicago beat writer chiming in is something.

It seems like most of the outrage that should be directed towards Dube is being sent the Flames way.

The Flames are not being charged for sexual assault. The organization didn't hatch a grand scheme to hide sexual assault.

The statement may have been poorly worded now, but I don't think they intended to do Dube any favaours citing his mental health.

It's interesting where blame goes first in these instances.

I think people find it easier to attack organizations than individuals because you don't know the face of the person you're giving #### to.

Meanwhile we have 5 guys who potentially assaulted someone and but there are pressing matters and entities at which to direct outrage.

There isn't really a protocol for dealing with this since it hasn't really happened at this level this publicly before. Dube left first, before speculation of something imminent really started swirling so it's not like they had neighbors to rip their script off of. Miscalculated in retrospect, but not sure the woke-y demonizing is earned.

[SeanCharles]

I don't know why this is being talked to death..

The Flames wouldn't have called it a metal health leave if they knew what was coming days later.

Rasmus Andersson and Oliver Kylington wouldn't have publicly supported Dube in his struggle with mental health in interviews on the Fan960 if they knew what was coming days later.

Dube pulled the wool over his teammates and the organizations eyes and is a direct reflection on his character IMO.

Stop with the outrage at the Flames cause they trusted one of their players.

Everyone forgets Dube was the first one to request a leave. As soon as Hart did I'm sure the organization and his teammates started to second guess everything and realize they all made a mistake in trusting Dube's word.

[Paulie Walnuts]

So no one is going to say what the organization should have done?

If someone came to you and said they are taking a leave from mental health, and they have a Dr who is giving you a note for this are you going to deny it? Even if you knew the circumstances or not?

If Dube lied about needing mental health assistance that is on him and his conscious going forward, not the Flames. He is already being charged for something that is disgusting, so you can just add this to the list if that was indeed the case.

[Torture]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

So no one is going to say what the organization should have done?

If someone came to you and said they are taking a leave from mental health, and they have a Dr who is giving you a note for this are you going to deny it? Even if you knew the circumstances or not?

If Dube lied about needing mental health assistance that is on him and his conscious going forward, not the Flames. He is already being charged for something that is disgusting, so you can just add this to the list if that was indeed the case.

Nobody is saying you deny the leave or ask more about the circumstances. But you don't have to communicate the reason for his leave, just like they didn't with Kylington.

You simply say, "Dube is on a leave of absence. No further comments. Period. End of sentence."

[Sol]

Sorry if discussed already, but just heard on the radio that both Hockey Canada and the NHL have investigation reports on this incident. Wouldn't that mean that the Flames were at least somewhat aware of what was going on?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Torture

Nobody is saying you deny the leave or ask more about the circumstances. But you don't have to communicate the reason for his leave, just like they didn't with Kylington.

You simply say, "Dube is on a leave of absence. No further comments. Period. End of sentence."

Okay, sure.

But why the outrage? Why is this a discussion point for anyone? What does it affect?

Unless you believe that the Flames' motives were nefarious, in that they were consciously covering up for Dube in some way (a very difficult position to take), what does it matter?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Sol

Sorry if discussed already, but just heard on the radio that both Hockey Canada and the NHL have investigation reports on this incident. Wouldn't that mean that the Flames were at least somewhat aware of what was going on?

No.

[Ped]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Unless you believe that the Flames' motives were nefarious, in that they were consciously covering up for Dube in some way (a very difficult position to take), what does it matter?

I don't really know what the Flames knew or really believe this was a coverup of some sort, mostly because it doesn't make much sense if it was going to come out anyway - but if the mess with the Blackhawks and Aldrich and the fallout from that, no one should kid themselves that something like that couldn't happen again.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Okay, sure.

But why the outrage? Why is this a discussion point for anyone? What does it affect?

Unless you believe that the Flames' motives were nefarious, in that they were consciously covering up for Dube in some way (a very difficult position to take), what does it matter?

I think it was as simple as:

Dube/agent: I need to take a personal leave of absence - it's for mental health reasons.

Flames: OK, what do you want us to say?

Dube/agent: Just what I said is fine.

I imagine the Kylington conversation went the same way except what Kylington wanted them to say back then is what they released back then.

To think it's any more than that you have to decide that the Flames have lied ion their recent press release. Remember the timing wasbefore the announcement that 5 arrests were going to be made. So assumptions and speculation aside, all the Flames had was general knowledge that Dube, and a bunch of other people, were on the WJC team and attended the event and that he'd denied any wrongdoing like a bunch of other players.