Hart, McLeod, Dube, Foote, Formenton charged with sexual assault

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Looking around on other forums, twitter, reddit, it seems like only Flames fans are defending the Flames (or Dube's) use of mental illness as reason for the leave.

Personally, I would like the Flames to clarify the situation. I don't like it at all.

I read one person speculating that the Flames may have had to handle it differently since they are in Canada and the other players were in the U.S. Perhaps different standards/regulations in play.

[Torture]

Could have and should have just said that he was taking an indefinite leave. No reason to add that it was for mental health reasons.

[Hockey-and_stuff]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I am hoping that the Flames act swiftly and appropriately to terminate Dube's contract.

If there is an avenue to do so it will likely take some time to work through the legalities of the NHL and NHLPA in getting it done.

If I were to predict what will happen it would be they will let him go quietly by not qualifying him when the season ends.

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[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

May not have had a choice. Better believe there were lawyers involved in the writing of that statement.

It was an over disclosure though. I don't see how that was legally required.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Hockey-and_stuff

If there is an avenue to do so it will likely take some time to work through the legalities of the NHL and NHLPA in getting it done.

If I were to predict what will happen it would be they will let him go quietly by not qualifying him when the season ends.

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Player contracts have been terminated for far less and the Flames need to do what is right to separate themselves from association with the player.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

I agree both can be true but the timing just kinda sucks, especially for something like mental health that still has a stigma attached to it. In general I think it takes courage to come forward and say you are having mental health issues. It is just unfortunate timing that (assuming he does have mental health issues) that he came forward with those issues days before he would have to take a leave of absence as someone facing significant jail time.

The unfortunate reality is that many people who do awful things also have some kind of mental health issue. Being a criminal and having mental health issues are far from mutually exclusive. We can't pick and choose who gets to acknowledge their issues.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I read one person speculating that the Flames may have had to handle it differently since they are in Canada and the other players were in the U.S. Perhaps different standards/regulations in play.

They literally said that Kylington's was a "personal issue" when they did the exact same thing 18 months earlier.

They had no reason to say it was "mental health", and no way that legal would have indicated they disclose more information.

IMO Flames were trying to avoid people making the link and now are rightfully getting criticized for it.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Yeah, I don't care. I think optics matter in this kind of thing, and it is absolutely worth it to indicate to all parties, public and private, that this behavior has no business in sports.

Player contracts have been terminated for far less.

No, don't get me wrong, I 100% agree with you. I am curious to see if one of these teams sets that precedent for the rest to follow.

[Lonestar]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I don't disagree on principle but I suspect it might end up being far more palatable (and expedient) for all involved to let that contract quietly expire in six months instead of staging a resource-intensive legal battle over the validity of said termination.

No. Terminate the contract immediately and cut ties. F*** the "palatable" route. I for one am very tired of the PC jargon to protect individuals not worthy of protection. Through the investigation that has gone on far too long, there is clear indication that a member of the organization was involved, at whatever capacity. Get rid of him.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

I agree both can be true but the timing just kinda sucks, especially for something like mental health that still has a stigma attached to it. In general I think it takes courage to come forward and say you are having mental health issues. It is just unfortunate timing that (assuming he does have mental health issues) that he came forward with those issues days before he would have to take a leave of absence as someone facing significant jail time.

I agree it sucks for all sorts of reasons.
But I also think it is an evolution of how we thinkin about mental health.
Anyone can suffer from a mental health crisis. And just because you are - doesn't mean you are a good person or should be thought of as a hero.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

No, don't get me wrong, I 100% agree with you. I am curious to see if one of these teams sets that precedent for the rest to follow.

I am hoping the Flames set the charge. They need to start rectifying the situation.

Absolutely disappointed in my favorite team.

[jar_e]

That article Ped posted from the Athletic talks about contract terminations.

I would not be surprised given the outcry and the details slowly coming out that Bettman uses his powers to terminate all their contracts.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Lonestar

No. Terminate the contract immediately and cut ties. F*** the "palatable" route. I for one am very tired of the PC jargon to protect individuals not worthy of protection. Through the investigation that has gone on far too long, there is clear indication that a member of the organization was involved, at whatever capacity. Get rid of him.

PA won't allow for unilateral terminations of contracts.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

PA won't allow for unilateral terminations of contracts.

Tell that to Corey Perry.

If his contract can be terminated then any of these contracts should easily be able to be terminated. Getting charged for rape should be much easier to terminate a contract for than "getting too drunk at a team function".

[Hockey-and_stuff]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Player contracts have been terminated for far less and the Flames need to do what is right to separate themselves from association with the player.

Do you know the last few deals that were terminated beyond buyout waivers? Mike Richards and Slava Voynov are the only two I can recall in recent memory.

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[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Torture

Could have and should have just said that he was taking an indefinite leave. No reason to add that it was for mental health reasons.

I have no clue but I'm wondering aloud if a mental health leave entitles the player or team to insurance payouts on the contract? An indefinite leave may mean there is no carry over of benefits etc. and is possibly a ploy by the player and agent to continue collecting salary while this drags on.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I agree it sucks for all sorts of reasons.
But I also think it is an evolution of how we thinkin about mental health.
Anyone can suffer from a mental health crisis. And just because you are - doesn't mean you are a good person or should be thought of as a hero.

Yeah, this I can get onboard with.

I regularly have intrusive thoughts to (redacted) I'm not a hero because I don't.
In fact it's kinda infantilizing tbh

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

They didn't say Kylington's was a "mental health" leave right out the gate, should have followed the same practice here.

It was a stupid decision and they should have just said he was on a leave of absence like other teams did.

I said it before if you're Rasmus Andersson how stupid do you feel right now that you had to answer questions about Dube's mental health and blamed it on the "twitter monsters"



They should get better lawyers then because the other teams seemed to figure out how to not blame it on mental health.

Kylington and his representatives would have similarly had a say in how it was worded.

I'm always amazed at how people can judge such a complicated situation with such certainty while knowing so little about what actually happened.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Hockey-and_stuff

Do you know the last few deals that were terminated beyond buyout waivers? Mike Richards and Slava Voynov are the only two I can recall in recent memory.

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... just look north.

Evander Kane
Corey Perry

[Hockey-and_stuff]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Tell that to Corey Perry.



If his contract can be terminated then any of these contracts should easily be able to be terminated.

Even in that case he was sent home for a couple days before having his deal terminated. They didn't do it in one day.

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