Hart, McLeod, Dube, Foote, Formenton charged with sexual assault

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by cam_calderon

Neither do I. I'm just saying, this looks possibly as awful on the league and the clubs involved as the LPD. Shrugging your shoulders and saying case closed was not an adequate resolution.

It’s not even close.

You’re not only completely misrepresenting the process the NHL went through and where it stopped, but you’ve constructed a made for tv fantasy around how you think it should have gone that isn’t close to reality.

[cam_calderon]

But the NHL did open their own investigation, as did HC and obviously the police.

[rohara66]

I mean I like being mad at the NHL and Gary is a total blow hard snob... but how is this an NHL issue that they're suppose to investigate and drop the hammer on?



It happened before these players were in the NHL and the cops are investigating it again. Once the police confirm charges/convictions the NHL will have their time to drop the hammer.

[cam_calderon]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

It’s not even close.

You’re not only completely misrepresenting the process the NHL went through and where it stopped, but you’ve constructed a made for tv fantasy around how you think it should have gone that isn’t close to reality.

So tell me, you're comfortable with the NHL and Flames' role in this? That Dube was free to play all this time?

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by cam_calderon

But the NHL did open their own investigation, as did HC and obviously the police.

Right, and because of the nature of this incident, it was not possible for it to have the outcome / result you want. You are characterizing that as some sort of failure (and hey, I'm not saying the investigation might not have been crap) vs. accepting that it is likely more an outcome of how it effective it could even have been in the first place from the NHL.

Speaking about the NHL in this case. What you want from them, in terms of an investigation, was likely not possible in this case.

[Since1984]

Originally Posted by cam_calderon

So tell me, you're comfortable with the NHL and Flames' role in this? That Dube was free to play all this time?

What would Calgary or the NHL know?? Dube wouldn't disclose any incriminating info. All he really needed to say was, "I have cooperated with police officials and continue to do so". As employers neither of them would have known the extent of the involvement.

If one of the players did come out and say, "Oh BTW, I was in that room and participated in the SA" that player would have had his contract terminated or the teams would have cut ties with him and shipped out of town, ala Alex Formenton.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

Of course he is having mental issues right now. His whole world is crashing right before his eyes . It was still worded poorly considering why he might be having mental health issues at this moment. I look no farther than the live intermission panel of last game. Leslie, Francis and sarich giving him huge praise for taking care of mental health issues while also mentioning kylington battle with mental health in the same breath .Asking everybody to wish him well , while leaving out that his mental health issues might stem from a rape allegation. They obviously didn’t know about the rape allegations but nobody is going to be able to convince me the flames organization didn’t know.

There is no way the Sportsnet panel wasn’t at least as aware of the rape allegations hanging over Dube’s head as this board was.

But in any event, I don’t hold those guys to a particular high standard - they’re not real journalists, and this is evident every time something real happens in the NHL (or sports writ large) that requires them to be anything other than water carriers for their masters.

[cam_calderon]

Treliving could've traded him or walked him to free agency. There was enough smoke about this and he was the captain.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by cam_calderon

So tell me, you're comfortable with the NHL and Flames' role in this? That Dube was free to play all this time?

You must know all the details then in order to ask these questions at the current time.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by cam_calderon

So tell me, you're comfortable with the NHL and Flames' role in this? That Dube was free to play all this time?

I imagine the parties have legal obligations during the investigation, including that the parties involved are not to talk about it to the organization or any other players. Simply put the Flames and NHL let the investigating people do their job and avoid unnecessary legal implications. Pretty standard.

[cam_calderon]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

I imagine the parties have legal obligations during the investigation, including that the parties involved are not to talk about it to the organization or any other players. Simply put the Flames and NHL let the investigating people do their job and avoid unnecessary legal implications. Pretty standard.

Did Treliving have a legal requirement to re-sign Dube?

[Icantwhisper]

Flames were/are in a no win situation here, damned if you do, damned if you don't.
I have faith they operated in the best interest of their player without knowing the reasoning for his issues. Player identifies he's having issues, flames responsibility is not to ask why and what's going on. Flames responsibility is to find the player the help they need with the correct professional.
99% of the time the player/employee is struggling with issues that are no fault of their own/non-criminal. In this case it looks like the player is struggling with the inevitability of being charged relating to a sexual assault.

[cam_calderon]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

You must know all the details then in order to ask these questions at the current time.

If it's a coincidence that five players take a leave of absence, including one flying over from another continent, right around the same time the LPD instruct five people to surrender in connection with an incident involving hockey players, it's a big one.

[stang]

Originally Posted by cam_calderon

Did Treliving have a legal requirement to re-sign Dube?

Hard to hold the Flames responsible for that. There was an investigation in 2019, no charges pressed, and case looked to be closed. Dube was signed in 2021 I believe, then it all became public in 2022 after the contract was signed.

Short of hiring Private investigators for every person they sign, not sure there was anything they could do.

[Paulie Walnuts]

You can't suspend players based off internet speculation.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by cam_calderon

So tell me, you're comfortable with the NHL and Flames' role in this? That Dube was free to play all this time?

Nobody even knows what Dube's involvement in this was.

Maybe he's struggling with his mental health right now, because he feels guilty/responsible that even though he had nothing to do with it, as team Captain, it happened under his watch?

I'm not trying to make up scenarios here or defend/condemn anyone, but it is plausible that 5 years of a Captain blaming himself for leaving early, instead of being there to control his guys, could lead to a mental break down weeks before it all comes to a head.

We don't know what the story is. Nobody here knows the facts, regardless of how convinced you are that you do. Baseless arguing about even more baseless speculation is ... well... baseless.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by cam_calderon

So tell me, you're comfortable with the NHL and Flames' role in this? That Dube was free to play all this time?

I’m comfortable with their role, but not comfortable that any players guilty of this were free to play all this time.

I just understand the limits of what they could actually do and the legal ramifications for acting outside of those limits. I also ask myself why the victim would want to cooperate with the current employer of these players that will bring her no justice, and at best protect themselves from bad PR.

Originally Posted by cam_calderon

Treliving could've traded him or walked him to free agency. There was enough smoke about this and he was the captain.

Dube was signed a year before the NHL was informed of the lawsuit, after the LPD cleared the players of wrongdoing, and long before the LPD re-opened the investigation. Walking Dube to free agency would be exactly what they’re doing this year, where he is a free agent in a few months and no mention of contract negotiations have taken place since last summer.

What would trading him have accomplished? Made him someone else’s problem? If there was enough smoke, what team is taking him?

[Aarongavey]

The tinfoil hat argument of what did the NHL know and when did they know it is Alex Formenton. Guy is a 6’3 winger who skates well and put up 18 goals and 32 points in his rookie year. After April 2022 he is persona non grata. The Sens won’t sign him, nobody will even give up a 5th round pick to trade for him. It is rare in the NHL that a 22 year old potential power forward is unwanted by 32 teams.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by cam_calderon

Did Treliving have a legal requirement to re-sign Dube?

I wouldn't know. I would assume both parties were just following orders to not talk about any incidents until the investigation was completed. You can't accuse the player until the police have all the facts and the player likely was not allowed to share his side of the story. Treliving's legal requirement has nothing to do with it. If Treliving started asking questions wouldn't he then become legally involved?

[cam_calderon]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

I wouldn't know. I would assume both parties were just following orders to not talk about any incidents until the investigation was completed. You can't accuse the player until the police have all the facts and the player likely was not allowed to share his side of the story. Treliving's legal requirement has nothing to do with it. If Treliving started asking questions wouldn't he them become legally involved?

That's fair. It's much easier in hindsight to opine about what a GM should've done and not done when in that moment Dube was in no legal trouble, I'll admit.