Hart, McLeod, Dube, Foote, Formenton charged with sexual assault

[Scroopy Noopers]

I really don’t understand the desire here to find ANOTHER thing to be mad about in relation to this story. What are we deflecting from? It’s so confusing.

[Ped]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

lol some of you are really reaching here.

Yes, you are.


It's been stated by the London Police that they've asked 5 players from that team to surrender within 2 weeks. 5 players from that team have all taken leaves of absence from their respective clubs. Those 5 players happen to include a player from your favourite team.


The inference and conclusions, while not set in stone, are completely obvious, and accusing people of reaching because 5 players have taken leave and 5 players are asked to surrender themselves is laughable.


You want to hold on to Dube being innocent that's your call. But that's reaching more than the other side right now.

[Icantwhisper]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

lol some of you are really reaching here.

We do NOT know who did it. Sure, there’s 5 players who have taken leaves of absence from their respective teams but that doesn’t make them automatically guilty. The ONLY one I could really say likely had something to do with it is Formenton, but that’s only because he had to travel back overseas from the Swiss team he plays for. Other than that, the rest is up in the air.

I don’t view Calgary as covering up anything. Dube needed to work on himself mentally. If he is in fact part of it, then yes, let’s all be extremely disappointed in him. We don’t know that yet, so hold your horses. Just keep in mind we drafted him BEFORE this incident happened. It doesn’t condone what happened.

I’m still holding on to him NOT doing it. I think he’s truly having his personal issues right now and with the chance that he is NOT involved, this 2018 WJC case has likely been a big reason on why his production and on-ice play has gone downward. If he is not guilty, gets the help he needs, and feels comfortable to come back to playing (like Kylington), I definitely see a different player playing for us.

As of right now it’s pointless to speculate any longer who has done what when all we have are a number of people and no names. Wait until February 5.

You should prepare to be extremely disappointed

[jlh2640]

I originally thought Dube was a mental health thing. But the more time goes on and there isn’t any other player announced as taking a leave from wherever they are playing. The more I am certain Dube is involved.

[jlh2640]

Speculation of course until it all comes out. But the reality is the writing is on the wall. Maybe the Flames didn’t know much and Dube was having mental health issues related from all this. I remember Huska saying the day they released the statement, the Dube didn’t practice because “he wasn’t feeling well”.


It all fits though. His terrible play, the timing of his leave, and the symptoms of mental illness.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Ped

Yes, you are.


It's been stated by the London Police that they've asked 5 players from that team to surrender within 2 weeks. 5 players from that team have all taken leaves of absence from their respective clubs. Those 5 players happen to include a player from your favourite team.


The inference and conclusions, while not set in stone, are completely obvious, and accusing people of reaching because 5 players have taken leave and 5 players are asked to surrender themselves is laughable.


You want to hold on to Dube being innocent that's your call. But that's reaching more than the other side right now.

Originally Posted by Icantwhisper

You should prepare to be extremely disappointed

So let me get this straight, I’m reaching for waiting for the actual names to be disclosed? Rather than automatically assuming the 5 taking leaves of absence are the ones that are proven guilty? And what if we have a few others who finally decide to take that leave of absence? A whole lot of drawing to conclusions. Social media of course allows us to get any kind of info expedited, but I’m still in the “wait and see” boat. I don’t see what’s wrong with that. Until I officially see Dube’s name as one of the guilty members, I’m not going to criticize him.

[kukkudo]

Even if Dube is not guilty, social media has already done the damage on all the players that have taken a leave of absence.

[Flamesfan05]

Let say Dube is not one of the 5

Isn’t that crazy for him to choose this exact time to take a leave?

[cam_calderon]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Let say Dube is not one of the 5

Isn’t that crazy for him to choose this exact time to take a leave?

It would be a hell of a coincidence.

[81MC]

The radio silence should be all anyone needs. Lawyers would have advised both parities to say nothing.

If not involved, Dube or his agent or the team would have tried something to make that clear.

If one iota of the charges are true, good ####ing riddance. Imagine the poor woman needing to live with seeing those Mfers names on peoples back.

[Textcritic]

Even if the Flames knew ahead of time that Dube would be facing charges, I still don't have any issue with the statement. Dube has been a member of the team for his entire professional career, and he is undoubtedly very close with lots of people in the organisation and hockey administration. I expect that most people who know him well are also hoping for the best for him, and are also concerned about his mental health. They are also probably extremely conflicted about how to feel—seeing someone they care about suddenly have this horrible skeleton in his closet revealed. It's easy to make sweeping judgments about people we have never met; it's far more difficult when it comes to our good friends and family.

Again, the press release itself was very opaque and completely innocuous. The Flames have not publicly wished Dube well, nor have they made any statement of support.

Sent from my SM-G986W using Tapatalk

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Again, I don't see it as the team using this to cover for Dube. At least we don't know that. We don't know what happened leading up to announcement. Mental crisis takes several forms.
- He could have checked himself into a medical facility
- He could have reached out to a team-mate or coach if he was in crisis
- He could have gone through his agent to formally request leave for mental health reasons.

We don't know. And we may not. But these are not black and white things. The Flames released a pretty fact-based announcement that he was away from the team to attend to mental health, noting that he was under the care of medical professionals.

Did they need to say all that? Maybe. Maybe not. We don't know enough to judge. If there was a blunder here it indeed was not just saying that he was taking a leave of absence and that's it. But I don't think that was to cover something up. IF they knew what was coming, they would also know how ineffective that would be.

Depending on how things played out, there may have been no direct contact between the organization and team, but instead they could have been notified by the agent and/or medical professionals.

Too many unknowns and on the list of parties who did things wrong, the wording of the statement from the Flames is waaay down my list. Particularly from an organization who have navigated some tough stuff recently fairly well (Peters, Kylington, Snow).

This all ignores the fact that he was a player on a team that had people under investigation. The other teams all managed to put it together somehow. If the Flames weren't communicating with either the league, Hockey Canada and/or looking into it themselves - for a guy they are signing and have under contract - they missed the bus. Burying your head in the sand isn't a defense on the PR side.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

This all ignores the fact that he was a player on a team that had people under investigation. The other teams all managed to put it together somehow. If the Flames weren't communicating with either the league, Hockey Canada and/or looking into it themselves - for a guy they are signing and have under contract - they missed the bus. Burying your head in the sand isn't a defense on the PR side.

Could it be as simple as that Dube is the only player of the five who formally took a medical leave for mental health reasons? Could it be that a lot of people are reading WAY too much into the very fine nuances of brief public statements issued by these different teams? This is not an "either/or" situation.

Sent from my SM-G986W using Tapatalk

[Paulie Walnuts]

We don’t know what the conversation was.

He may really be on a mental health leave. I’m sure realizing what you did to someone and ruined their life would have a severe impact on someone’s mental health.

If he lied about it to the team well that’s on him and not the team.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

I really don’t understand the desire here to find ANOTHER thing to be mad about in relation to this story. What are we deflecting from? It’s so confusing.

It’s people who have had their brain broken by the internet. Low attention spans, low empathy, hungry for content. We’ve known about the scandal for so long that it isn’t exciting or worth “having a take” on anymore. The victim? Who cares! The real story is the specific wording on a 20-word tweet. Who KNEW? When did they KNOW? Is calling this “mental health” yet ANOTHER COVER UP??? Oh, if it is, I’ll sure be angry! And don’t forget, I’m the one who discovered this cover up FIRST!

We saw it with COVID. Worldwide pandemic? Not enough. Actual people dying? Boring. Must have global conspiracy to inject us all with 5G and control us. And I discovered it!!

I don’t know if it was always this way but people definitely seem to struggle with events happening in ways that don’t match the content they’ve over-consumed. I think there was even someone in this thread mad that they didn’t make public arrests like in the movies.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

So let me get this straight, I’m reaching for waiting for the actual names to be disclosed? Rather than automatically assuming the 5 taking leaves of absence are the ones that are proven guilty? And what if we have a few others who finally decide to take that leave of absence? A whole lot of drawing to conclusions. Social media of course allows us to get any kind of info expedited, but I’m still in the “wait and see” boat. I don’t see what’s wrong with that. Until I officially see Dube’s name as one of the guilty members, I’m not going to criticize him.

I think the part that people disagree with you on, is your statement that everyone else is reaching.

You are of course free to assume what you want.

But on "a balance of probabilities", pretty much everyone except you believes that those are the 5 players. I doubt everyone one of those posters are reaching.

And i really think that if any of those 5 were not part of the sweep, they would be putting out another statement saying just that.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Even if the Flames knew ahead of time that Dube would be facing charges, I still don't have any issue with the statement. Dube has been a member of the team for his entire professional career, and he is undoubtedly very close with lots of people in the organisation and hockey administration. I expect that most people who know him well are also hoping for the best for him, and are also concerned about his mental health. They are also probably extremely conflicted about how to feel—seeing someone they care about suddenly have this horrible skeleton in his closet revealed. It's easy to make sweeping judgments about people we have never met; it's far more difficult when it comes to our good friends and family.

Again, the press release itself was very opaque and completely innocuous. The Flames have not publicly wished Dube well, nor have they made any statement of support.

Sent from my SM-G986W using Tapatalk

People don’t like the statement because it is almost exactly the same as the Kylington statement at training camp. In fact, it was even a little more descriptive than that one. And it ended up with players answering questions about mental health and how the team is really supporting Dube etc.

It was a misstep and you can see how the other teams handled it better. There was no really no reason to mention his mental health at all. But it’s certainly not a coverup IMO.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Could it be as simple as that Dube is the only player of the five who formally took a medical leave for mental health reasons? Could it be that a lot of people are reading WAY too much into the very fine nuances of brief public statements issued by these different teams? This is not an "either/or" situation.

Sent from my SM-G986W using Tapatalk

It could be. Its also a PR hit regardless of the reason for it and there was reasons to be suspicious about it in this case. It pretty straight-forward to me.

[Flamesfan05]

He was the first that came out so the PR was probably mishandled

But reality is if you were involved in this, it’s more than likely you are having mental issues right now

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

It’s people who have had their brain broken by the internet. Low attention spans, low empathy, hungry for content. We’ve known about the scandal for so long that it isn’t exciting or worth “having a take” on anymore. The victim? Who cares! The real story is the specific wording on a 20-word tweet. Who KNEW? When did they KNOW? Is calling this “mental health” yet ANOTHER COVER UP??? Oh, if it is, I’ll sure be angry! And don’t forget, I’m the one who discovered this cover up FIRST!

We saw it with COVID. Worldwide pandemic? Not enough. Actual people dying? Boring. Must have global conspiracy to inject us all with 5G and control us. And I discovered it!!

I don’t know if it was always this way but people definitely seem to struggle with events happening in ways that don’t match the content they’ve over-consumed. I think there was even someone in this thread mad that they didn’t make public arrests like in the movies.

Seems like a wild connection. This is Calgary Flames message board and we are discussing the information the Flames are releasing. I'm pretty sure everyone understands the Flames PR impact is about 0.0000001% of the same issue as what the players are accused of.