Hart, McLeod, Dube, Foote, Formenton charged with sexual assault

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Wanna bet? You think if Logan Mailloux makes the Habs all their sponsors are pulling out? Sponsors care about dollars, they are not taking the moral high ground if they can make a profit.

Consumers writ large don’t like to purchase products that remind them of rape.

[Minnie]

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Consumers writ large don’t like to purchase products that remind them of rape.

Really? Mike Tyson had a bunch of sponsors after his prison sentence. I didn't see anyone boycotting their products. Do the Cleveland Browns have no sponsors now? This is news to me. I can give you example after example of athletes either accused or found guilty of sexual assault and the sponsors were still there. I don't agree with it but that is business.

[CFO]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

What link is there between captain and off ice actions? Take your time.

All I'm saying is usually captains are leaders ON and OFF the ice.

[MegaErtz]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Wanna bet? You think if Logan Mailloux makes the Habs all their sponsors are pulling out? Sponsors care about dollars, they are not taking the moral high ground if they can make a profit.

Sponsors aren't down with gang rape, or coordinated efforts by groups who care about victims of it to persuade sponsors to pull out. None of these guys are ever playing in the NHL again, regardless of whatever legal wizardry their lawyers can cook up.

I didn't see sponsors lining up to give OJ Simpson money, and he was found not guilty.

[CFO]

Carter Hart earlier had substance abuse issues. Was this a result of the aftermath in coping? Multiple occasions there been comments Dube is known to be a drinker. And whether a pure coincidence I saw him out a couple years ago and he was a puddle.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by MegaErtz

Sponsors aren't down with gang rape, or coordinated efforts by groups who care about victims of it to persuade sponsors to pull out. None of these guys are ever playing in the NHL again, regardless of whatever legal wizardry their lawyers can cook up.

I didn't see sponsors lining up to give OJ Simpson money, and he was found not guilty.

Ok, we shall see.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

This is the NHL we are talking about here, if these players are found guilty but don't get jail time I expect they will be in the NHL again.

With the Oilers.

[All In Good Time]

At the end of the day, the whole damn thing is rotten
The perpetrators (from 2018 or any other year for that matter. A “slush fund” was set up for one reason or another)
Hockey Canada
London police (for closing the case in 2019 for whatever reason)

Stinks from stem to stern

[Rejean31]

Originally Posted by stang

You would have thought someone would have said that his leave has nothing to do with this by now if he wasnt one.

Geeze, stang. You're reeeeeally hoping Dube was involved aren't you? Just something else for an asshat Oiler fan to get on Flames fans about, eh? Get bent!!

[nieuwy-89]

A lot of thoughts, as this has clouded my day.

1. Focus on the victim. Reading the report of what happened is just disgusting and awful. She was in a hopeless position and treated like a commodity by the players and the “older man” who plied her with drinks. Obviously her healing, recovery, and justice should be first and foremost.

2. Toxic masculinity. When I graduated university and entered the construction industry in the late 90s, I was struggling with fitting into the macho Type A culture. My boss - a very senior executive in a Tier 1 global construction company - gave me this advice: “Go bang some girls. Be a whoremonger. I was a whoremonger when I was your age, and all the guys you work with are.” If that is the culture in the bland industry of construction- imagine what it was and is like in elite/professional sports. (I quit the company shortly after that conversation)

3. Dube. Man I really hoped he wasn’t involved. A Team Canada captain, a top prospect who graduated to become a regular NHLer. He gave us some good memories as a Flame. But now that legacy is tarnished. He will always be tied to this incident, and by association so will the Calgary Flames. His career is over now.

4. The Calgary Flames. I’m sorry but it really bothers me that they issued the statement they did. They covered for Dube. There is no way that the organization didn’t know he had a role in this. It’s been a tough 2 years to be a fan of this team and supporter of the franchise. It’s time for a new approach to fans and the public. It’s time for some transparency and honesty from this team, not constant blunders and misdirection.

[Flames67]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Really? Mike Tyson had a bunch of sponsors after his prison sentence. I didn't see anyone boycotting their products. Do the Cleveland Browns have no sponsors now? This is news to me. I can give you example after example of athletes either accused or found guilty of sexual assault and the sponsors were still there. I don't agree with it but that is business.

At the end of the day you may not be wrong, but this can’t continue to be normal. Fans, teams, coaches, players, the leaguer, etc, everyone has to demand better and I hope that’s what this sparks.

[All In Good Time]

Originally Posted by Rejean31

Geeze, stang. You're reeeeeally hoping Dube was involved aren't you? Just something else for an asshat Oiler fan to get on Flames fans about, eh? Get bent!!

Are you surprised?
It’s all about vindication/validation
Mctavish
Kane
Perry

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Rejean31

Geeze, stang. You're reeeeeally hoping Dube was involved aren't you? Just something else for an asshat Oiler fan to get on Flames fans about, eh? Get bent!!

Maybe he wants the Oilers to sign him since Holland likes giving out second, and third, and fourth, and fifth, .etc chances.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by nieuwy-89

I’m sorry but it really bothers me that they issued the statement they did. They covered for Dube. There is no way that the organization didn’t know he had a role in this. It’s been a tough 2 years to be a fan of this team and supporter of the franchise. It’s time for a new approach to fans and the public. It’s time for some transparency and honesty from this team, not constant blunders and misdirection.

You are making a tonne of assumptions, and I am failing to see how the Flames in any way "covered for Dube."

Sent from my SM-G986W using Tapatalk

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by nieuwy-89

4. The Calgary Flames. I’m sorry but it really bothers me that they issued the statement they did. They covered for Dube. There is no way that the organization didn’t know he had a role in this. It’s been a tough 2 years to be a fan of this team and supporter of the franchise. It’s time for a new approach to fans and the public. It’s time for some transparency and honesty from this team, not constant blunders and misdirection.

Again, I don't see it as the team using this to cover for Dube. At least we don't know that. We don't know what happened leading up to announcement. Mental crisis takes several forms.
- He could have checked himself into a medical facility
- He could have reached out to a team-mate or coach if he was in crisis
- He could have gone through his agent to formally request leave for mental health reasons.

We don't know. And we may not. But these are not black and white things. The Flames released a pretty fact-based announcement that he was away from the team to attend to mental health, noting that he was under the care of medical professionals.

Did they need to say all that? Maybe. Maybe not. We don't know enough to judge. If there was a blunder here it indeed was not just saying that he was taking a leave of absence and that's it. But I don't think that was to cover something up. IF they knew what was coming, they would also know how ineffective that would be.

Depending on how things played out, there may have been no direct contact between the organization and team, but instead they could have been notified by the agent and/or medical professionals.

Too many unknowns and on the list of parties who did things wrong, the wording of the statement from the Flames is waaay down my list. Particularly from an organization who have navigated some tough stuff recently fairly well (Peters, Kylington, Snow).

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Nm

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Didn't say anything then (and refrained from posting in the Dube thread) because I had heard late last week that Dube and Hart would be two of the players implicated in these proceedings and looks like that ended up being good intel based on how the last 4 or 5 days since then have went.

In terms of Dube specifically it's quite possible there is a separate mental health aspect to this...but to me personally if he ends up being one of the 5 charged then framing it as a mental health leave was not a good move by the organization.

Premature to say that. I think.
If a player requests time away for mental health issues you grant it. You don't investigate it. I think it would be wisest to wait and see the Flames response going forward.

[BOSSY]

Originally Posted by nieuwy-89

A lot of thoughts, as this has clouded my day.

1. Focus on the victim. Reading the report of what happened is just disgusting and awful. She was in a hopeless position and treated like a commodity by the players and the “older man” who plied her with drinks. Obviously her healing, recovery, and justice should be first and foremost.

2. Toxic masculinity. When I graduated university and entered the construction industry in the late 90s, I was struggling with fitting into the macho Type A culture. My boss - a very senior executive in a Tier 1 global construction company - gave me this advice: “Go bang some girls. Be a whoremonger. I was a whoremonger when I was your age, and all the guys you work with are.” If that is the culture in the bland industry of construction- imagine what it was and is like in elite/professional sports. (I quit the company shortly after that conversation)

3. Dube. Man I really hoped he wasn’t involved. A Team Canada captain, a top prospect who graduated to become a regular NHLer. He gave us some good memories as a Flame. But now that legacy is tarnished. He will always be tied to this incident, and by association so will the Calgary Flames. His career is over now.

4. The Calgary Flames. I’m sorry but it really bothers me that they issued the statement they did. They covered for Dube. There is no way that the organization didn’t know he had a role in this. It’s been a tough 2 years to be a fan of this team and supporter of the franchise. It’s time for a new approach to fans and the public. It’s time for some transparency and honesty from this team, not constant blunders and misdirection.

Points 3 & 4 - couldn’t have said it better myself IF true …

[ForeverFlameFan]

lol some of you are really reaching here.

We do NOT know who did it. Sure, there’s 5 players who have taken leaves of absence from their respective teams but that doesn’t make them automatically guilty. The ONLY one I could really say likely had something to do with it is Formenton, but that’s only because he had to travel back overseas from the Swiss team he plays for. Other than that, the rest is up in the air.

I don’t view Calgary as covering up anything. Dube needed to work on himself mentally. If he is in fact part of it, then yes, let’s all be extremely disappointed in him. We don’t know that yet, so hold your horses. Just keep in mind we drafted him BEFORE this incident happened. It doesn’t condone what happened.

I’m still holding on to him NOT doing it. I think he’s truly having his personal issues right now and with the chance that he is NOT involved, this 2018 WJC case has likely been a big reason on why his production and on-ice play has gone downward. If he is not guilty, gets the help he needs, and feels comfortable to come back to playing (like Kylington), I definitely see a different player playing for us.

As of right now it’s pointless to speculate any longer who has done what when all we have are a number of people and no names. Wait until February 5.