Hart, McLeod, Dube, Foote, Formenton charged with sexual assault

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Ah.

Good to know he was not involved. Whew.

He is a man of high character, he is willing to steal state secrets and he's not overly-fond of Moose/Squirrel partnerships, but he has his principles!

[Icantwhisper]

Originally Posted by jar_e

Will be interesting to see the how the PA and teams deal with this after no public action on the contract termination of Perry and now five players presumably facing contract termination the moment they are charged.

It just doesn’t make sense. Perry - terminated, no charges. Lucic - not terminated, domestic assault charges.

We've all convicted Perry of multiple charges based on rumour, truth is we don't know what happened. He could be guilty of something completely inappropriate but also very hard to prove. Rather than face the court of public opinion on the actual events that occurs both party's agreed to part ways.
He could also be guilty of inappropriate behavior that isn't illegal but goes against his contract and therefore was terminated.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by trackercowe

It's a complete double standard. The whole victim blaming crowd. If a guy goes to the bar/club, then takes off his shirt... only to end up being raped, does that mean he was asking for it as well? That he should have known better.

I have had a few friends defend the perps in this case. I find that rather reprehensible, especially in knowing how they themselves act in public, or when they're intoxicated. They put themselves in bad situations, how would they feel if something like this happened to them or their children?

It's shocking how common this appears in today's society. I actually watched American Nightmare on Netflix last night. In this case multiple women were raped, kidnapped, and/or abused, and they were blamed and persecuted by those in law enforcement and the media. They were told the allegations in their cases were either hoaxes or a dream. I can't imagine living through something like that.

My wife and I watched it a few days ago. Mind blowing police and media work.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Yes, there was the crappy London Police investigation opened right away and closed in early 2019 (not that closing a case = "cleared of wrongdoing" technically).

I guess the question is "known by who"? I think there's a good chance no one at the NHL level knew until 2022 (except maybe those who had been with HC).

There would have been rumors of this happening for a long time across the pro/junior ranks. Most likely, is that it was assumed that this was just another "issue" that would disappear.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

What is the bar for mental health leave then? Insinuating the Flames merely rubber stamped a request for a mental health leave seems extremely naive. Just about any employer would be entitled to a legitimate explanation for a variety of reasons from whether it is a workplace matter or something entirely unrelated.

Something like this should certainly be classified as an indefinite leave of absence, similar to Lucic - who you could certainly argue is probably in the ballpark of a mental health leave situation as well. The primary issue however is legal, so that should trump everything else in my mind.

Calling this a mental health thing first and foremost is an injustice to people that are legitimately leveraging this for situations like Kylington.

I don’t know what happened behind the scenes but it’s entirely possible the flames knew of his situation but not the impending “potential” charges. If he came to them and said he needed a mental break, how are they in a position to say no? It’s a tough one. I’m positive today they’re looking at it like, damn we really shouldn’t have put it out there as mental but a personal leave. There’s nothing benefiting them by covering it up. He’s not a star player they needs to satisfy (as sad as that is).

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

One (I would consider very reliable) poster in this thread said they heard the news about Dube and Hart was about to drop.

There is absolutely zero chance the Flames organization wouldn't have this intel.

I still don't think that means the Flames necessarily acted wrongly. They may have been bound to speak on it from a mental health aspect if the player requested it.

Dube and Hart have been names tossed around for months.

I don’t see any indication that this was happening today, and if the Flames knew he would be implicated eventually I don’t see how that would factor into their approach to his request for a mental health leave.

Originally Posted by jar_e

Will be interesting to see the how the PA and teams deal with this after no public action on the contract termination of Perry and now five players presumably facing contract termination the moment they are charged.

It just doesn’t make sense. Perry - terminated, no charges. Lucic - not terminated, domestic assault charges.

My best guess would be that because Perry’s incident directly involved someone on the staff, it has different implications than incidents involving people outside the protection of the organization.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by dammage79

It's kind off funny. We cheer for these players, teams, leagues, sport. Whatever the sport. Then start parsing put blame when things go wrong. You really want to split hairs as to how and why the Flames called Dubes Leave of Absence a mental health thing? Really? That's the important thing here? That's the overriding gripe?

Nothing about the NHL consistently sweeping issues like this under the rug, or hockey Canada being the global leader in toxic hockey culture for decades, it's just that one thing, oooo the Flames did this thing wrong. It's literally the least ####ing important thing about this whole news story and here we are...

Agreed. In the long list of parties that some very wrong things, focusing on how the Flames worded their statement, seems odd.

[Icantwhisper]

Originally Posted by Vedder

Ultimately it’s a public perception thing so you could be right, but if Dube is ultimately charged I feel pretty gross about the statement.

In the current environment it’s disclosed to frame him in a sympathetic manner. Players were answering questions about supporting him, comparing it to Oliver situation, etc. Should have been handled differently in my opinion.

I'm no investigator but I'm pretty sure he's going to be charged within days.
5 players are on leave of absence, 5 players have asked to report to London police to face charges. Until I see a sixth player take a leave of absence I'd say charges are a foregone conclusion.

[Matty81]

What saved Perry and the Oilers was that the allegations against him weren't publicized. The stigma is as bad as the actual crime right now.

With the reaction from the league and Hawks he clearly did something pretty bad, and even if he wasn't charged/it wasn't criminal - lately teams still don't mostly want to identify with sexual harassers, bullies, or whatever the eff went down.

But nothing published, coupled with a team owner who has been accused twice himself of attempting to pay random women including one who is underage for sex who doesn't care alot about that stuff, and McDavid himself desperate enough to win that he doesn't care, Perry walks into their team and they get nothing but media plaudits, whereas these guys even if cleared are going to have a hard time ever landing a contract in the NHL again I'd guess now that their names are attached to it.

[GioforPM]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1750247596616974367

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Matty81

What saved Perry and the Oilers was that the allegations against him weren't publicized. The stigma is as bad as the actual crime right now.

With the reaction from the league and Hawks he clearly did something pretty bad, and even if he wasn't charged/it wasn't criminal - lately teams still don't mostly want to identify with sexual harassers, bullies, or whatever the eff went down.

But nothing published, coupled with a team owner who has been accused twice himself of attempting to pay random women including one who is underage for sex who doesn't care alot about that stuff, and McDavid himself desperate enough to win that he doesn't care, Perry walks into their team and they get nothing but media plaudits, whereas these guys even if cleared are going to have a hard time ever landing a contract in the NHL again I'd guess now that their names are attached to it.

not that i don't believe you but do you have a source for the bolded part?

[DiracSpike]

Originally Posted by Five-hole

Bro. Stop.

The world we want to live in is where men are taught not to be sexual predators, not where women are taught how to avoid them.

Blaming women for not taking appropriate precautions -- like, apparently, being in a bar at all -- perpetuates sexual predation. I can't stress it enough that you need to understand that what you are doing is quintessential victim blaming.

Ok, well...we don’t live in a world 100% free of rapists and assault era. Never have, never will. I’m sure you felt really good writing this and others felt good thanking it but blank proselytizing won’t help protect future victims. In fact, the devotion to not talking at all about what women can do to protect themselves will ensure more victims. Don’t let that stop you from feeling good about yourself though.

If I ever have a daughter I’ll tell her getting drunk and going to a hotel room with a stranger is a bad idea. Not much good can come of it and it exposes you to a lot of risk. Does that mean you deserve to be raped? Absolutely not. Does that mean these guys shouldn’t go to jail? No, they should, and it should be a very long and public sentence which is the only effective thing you can do to dissuade this behaviour.

If you wanna hang your hat on “consent courses” and “teaching” to stop this from happening...you’re gonna be waiting a long time. Forever, in fact. The rest of us will operate in reality.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

What is the bar for mental health leave then? Insinuating the Flames merely rubber stamped a request for a mental health leave seems extremely naive. Just about any employer would be entitled to a legitimate explanation for a variety of reasons from whether it is a workplace matter or something entirely unrelated.

We just don't know, and assuming this was just "rubber stamped" is a totally unsubstantiated opinion. It seems pretty likely to me that Dube was able to provide necessary documentation for whatever mental health struggles he has been enduring in the moment, and he was also probably never under any sort of obligation to disclose to his employer that this all stemmed from anxiety about facing impending criminal charges.

Something like this should certainly be classified as an indefinite leave of absence, similar to Lucic - who you could certainly argue is probably in the ballpark of a mental health leave situation as well. The primary issue however is legal, so that should trump everything else in my mind.

I am pretty sure that Lucic was charged first, before he had been granted a lead of absence. Dube has not yet been charged with anything.

Calling this a mental health thing first and foremost is an injustice to people that are legitimately leveraging this for situations like Kylington.

I disagree. It's a problem for people who are prone to read things into situations and public statements that are not there, and without any of the requisite facts required for making such judgments. But, let's say—for the sake of argument—that Dube approaches the Flames and says he needs to take a step away from the game, and requests a leave of absence. Their first question is going to be "Why?" Let's then say that he says he is struggling with his mental health; that there are signs of this in his play and demeanour off the ice, and that he has documentation to support it.

In this situation, what are the Flames obligated to do? Is it incumbent upon them to probe further about the source of Dube's emotional and psychological struggles, or is this a matter between him and his doctors? Let's say the Flames are suspicious that charges might be coming because they have heard rumours about this. Is it their prerogative to ask Dube about this? What if they ask, and he denies it? What if his agent wrote the public statement himself and instructed the team that this is what he and his client wanted to be disclosed?

There are a hundred reasons why the Flames released the statement they did, and not the one you think they should have. Again, without knowing all the facts, this is an incredibly trivial thing about which to complain.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Buff

You can probably put quotes around investigation.

Oh, definitely.

[canadiancactus]

Originally Posted by Matty81

What saved Perry and the Oilers was that the allegations against him weren't publicized. The stigma is as bad as the actual crime right now.

With the reaction from the league and Hawks he clearly did something pretty bad, and even if he wasn't charged/it wasn't criminal - lately teams still don't mostly want to identify with sexual harassers, bullies, or whatever the eff went down.

But nothing published, coupled with a team owner who has been accused twice himself of attempting to pay random women including one who is underage for sex who doesn't care alot about that stuff, and McDavid himself desperate enough to win that he doesn't care, Perry walks into their team and they get nothing but media plaudits, whereas these guys even if cleared are going to have a hard time ever landing a contract in the NHL again I'd guess now that their names are attached to it.

Yeah makes me wonder what happened with Perry, clearly it was severe but not criminal?

[GioforPM]

^^ I find it a little odd that the law firm who filed the initial complaint didn't know the names of the "5 players of interest". I'd have thought that they'd have certainly been told by their client in preparing the statement of claim. Unless they are being cute and saying they don't know which of the 8 players described in the complaint are the 5 being charged.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Dube and Hart have been names tossed around for months.

I don’t see any indication that this was happening today, and if the Flames knew he would be implicated eventually I don’t see how that would factor into their approach to his request for a mental health leave.

Huh? What are you saying here? Because you didn't know, the Flames (and others) couldn't?

[Matty81]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

not that i don't believe you but do you have a source for the bolded part?

#1 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...-sex-1.4059865

and

#2 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/daryl...ions-1.6526941

[FBI]

Does this mean Foote’s agent blatantly lied then on his twitter post saying Foote wasn’t there?

[Sec214]

Came in to see people's opinion's on this matter, leaving extremely disappointed by some... Some of you are sick #####s.

PEAK CALGARY PUCK