Hart, McLeod, Dube, Foote, Formenton charged with sexual assault

[cam_calderon]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Ya I get all that. I’m asking if Westhead or someone else reported what they have as evidence. Wasn’t there video in one of these cases? Or incriminating texts between players? Or maybe I’m thinking of a different team Canada assault. Or maybe even the Virtanen one. There’s so many I honestly have trouble keeping track.

If it is just he said she said, the system is absolutely stacked against the victim.

Westhead reported that videos were made, including the perpetrators trying to make it look like the woman was consenting.

[InternationalVillager]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

They apparently have or had funds set aside to settle stuff like this. Just let that settle in. They expect stuff like this happen, and rather than doing their best to prevent it, they would rather pay for the damages as if the victims are prostitutes. Absolutely disgusting.

Not to defend Hockey Canada at all but in a lot of similar situations, often the resolution is a settlement.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by cam_calderon

That's the thing though - not everyone does. In this instance, one thing she could've done is not get blackout drunk. I am not saying this would have made any difference in this instance, and lots of teenagers get blackout drunk weekly, if not daily at college/uni.

Everyone has a difference risk tolerance level. It's risky walking out of your front door.

Maybe she thought sleeping with a champion junior hockey player who was on his way to NHL superstardom was an achievement. Maybe it was purely physical attraction. Another girl may've heard stories of what young men with wildly inflated egos get up to in the bedroom and would stick well clear.

She might have been just raped too.

[gvitaly]

So what do we actually know about the incident? I haven't been following it very closely.

From everything I read so far I only saw that the players allegedly took turns slapping the victim, and that she told them she was uncomfortable.

Were there anymore details or allegations released?

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by cam_calderon

I'm not blaming her, simply pointing out there is inherent risk in meeting a stranger at a bar and going up to their hotel room. Of course, there's inherent risk in a lot of activities and the consequences are rarely this bad. The consequences of the decisions on that night are horrific.

For example, I used to buy things off ebay and suggested the drop off be done at a public place in broad daylight. That seemed inherently less risky than meeting at a known place where drugs were dealt at 3am.

This was a group of well-known hockey players at a tournament...while not known (likely) to the victim...also not "strangers" in the sense of "unknown to anyone and quite possibly criminals". These were supposed to be elite, responsible young men.

And, hopefully, NO still means NO.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by InternationalVillager

Not to defend Hockey Canada at all but in a lot of similar situations, often the resolution is a settlement.

I think that's because the victims know that that is likely all the justice they will ever see. The deck is stacked against them from the get go.

That could change starting today.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by InternationalVillager

Not to defend Hockey Canada at all but in a lot of similar situations, often the resolution is a settlement.

That is a fair point. Financial compensation is how our society deals with this stuff. I would like to know what kind of resources they allocate to preventing stuff like this from happening though, maybe through security and education.

[Remember1989]

As sad as this whole situation is, I think it is high time that kids (not just NHL players) realize - through seeing actions taken by Hockey Canada, CHL, NHL, etc. - that there are real consequences for awful behaviour. I have zero interest in continuing to pay to watch highly highly compensated athletes who have been incubated in a culture that in any way shields or protects its own when they engage in reprehensible ways. Part of what we all need to get behind is that we have to start addressing this crap at ALL levels of the sport but a big part of that is setting the tone at the top. Examples have to be set. It’s a privilege to play sport and especially play one for money because it’s pretty clear you are a role model (despite what Sir Charles said). We need to ensure that kids in any sport (not just hockey) get the message that you can’t ply this trade unless you live up to a standard and one that is elevated.

It’s interesting to think about how and when second chances are provided to players and where others are pushed out (not to mention coaches, GMs, owners). And also interesting to think about what these folks did to run into trouble and how much harm has been caused (e.g. drugs, gambling, abuse). Should Evander Kane have been given a second chance or shown the door? Should Craig MacTavish have been allowed back? In one sense second chances show we can forgive and that people can overcome demons, etc. On the other hand, at some point you shouldn’t get the right to keep getting paid to play a game in front of fans and to create accountability among all levels of the sport. Some examples of players who you won’t see suit up again are Slava Voynov (at least in NA), Ray Rice and Colin Kaepernick (some making perfect sense, while for instance Colin’s makes none). What will happen in this Hockey Canada case remains to be seen and we are obviously a long way from the latter part of the discussion.

[cam_calderon]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

1. You're a buffoon.

2. Were they "strangers"? IIRC there is reason to believe the ringleader and victim knew each other for some time. I cringe to anticipate your next embarrassing rebuttal.

The Athletic's long read on this said they met for the first time that night.

[powderjunkie]

I'll be surprised if those goes to trial. It will be a very difficult case for the crown to 'win', but going to trial in itself would almost certainly be a major loss for each of the defendants, regardless of the outcome. So I'd expect plea bargain(s), with terms that will outrage most people (though the sentence from a guilty verdict would likely outrage us, too).

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

I think that's because the victims know that that is likely all the justice they will ever see. The deck is stacked against them from the get go.

That could change starting today.

As long as the rich and powerful continue to get off on abusing people, the deck is going to be stacked against victims.

[Bandwagon Surfer]

Speculation does not help anything in these cases.

The legal system is so damn broken for these types of cases. It is so biased against the victims at every level, and so rare that the rapists are ever charged. And even if they are charged they so often get off on the worst most sexist reasons (boys will be boys, she must have not do enough to stop it, why ruin a good boy's life over this, ...).

This has resulted in a situation where to public has no faith in the legal system to provide justice. So the court of public opinion jumps in to provide that missing justice, but as a mob that is not something it can actually do, and usually makes things worse.

[cam_calderon]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

This was a group of well-known hockey players at a tournament...while not known (likely) to the victim...also not "strangers" in the sense of "unknown to anyone and quite possibly criminals". These were supposed to be elite, responsible young men.

And, hopefully, NO still means NO.

Yeah, perhaps that was a perceived security blanket for the woman that they were hockey players in town for a gala. By the time they left the bar she was not in any condition to make a judgement on that - not a criticism, just a fact.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

I'll be surprised if those goes to trial. It will be a very difficult case for the crown to 'win', but going to trial in itself would almost certainly be a major loss for each of the defendants, regardless of the outcome. So I'd expect plea bargain(s), with terms that will outrage most people (though the sentence from a guilty verdict would likely outrage us, too).

Yeah, agreed.

[cam_calderon]

Tried spoilering some details of The Athletic's report but I failed. There are graphic details here, so be warned. It is worse than I initially remembered.

[bluejays]

I’m not going to gang up on Cam because it’s unnecessary, and there’s truth to what he’s getting at in different circumstances. You always have to be aware of your surroundings and try and not put yourself in a bad situation. But in this case from what we’ve heard is she went home with one guy and five rats were let in. It’s not reasonable to think this thing could happen in a place like London where it’s just an average university party town, so it really shouldn’t be on her.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

If he is charged, which it seems like is a real possibility, then I want the Flames to immediately terminate his contract and donate the balance of his salary this year to a women's charity in Calgary. Then I'd like them to explain why they needed criminal charges before they felt he should at the very least be away from the team (even with salary during the investigation).

Worst case scenario he sues them and is awarded his remaining salary as damages and they made an extra donation to a local women's charity.

As for the solitary person victim blaming in this thread, I hope you don't have daughters that are attacked and you tell them they are partially responsible for someone else being a POS.

Stuff like this is not up to the team alone. The PA and league would both be involved.

[cam_calderon]

Originally Posted by bluejays

I’m not going to gang up on Cam because it’s unnecessary, and there’s truth to what he’s getting at in different circumstances. You always have to be aware of your surroundings and try and not put yourself in a bad situation. But in this case from what we’ve heard is she went home with one guy and five rats were let in. It’s not reasonable to think this thing could happen in a place like London where it’s just an average university party town, so it really shouldn’t be on her.

Thank you. I clearly am not articulating my thoughts properly, if I've provoked such a reaction.

The thought of this assault occurring makes me almost physically ill. It is a wretched and disgusting act.

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Stuff like this is not up to the team alone. The PA and league would both be involved.

Normally I would agree that seems to be how it should work, but Chicago was able to actually terminate Perry's contract, not just put him on paid leave. So who knows what teams can actually do if jey want to.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

Normally I would agree that seems to be how it should work, but Chicago was able to actually terminate Perry's contract, not just put him on paid leave. So who knows what teams can actually do if jey want to.

What was Perry's contract terminated for? If you know, you're the only one here who does.

This isn't even an apples-to-oranges comparison. You're comparing a possible rotten apple with something in a mystery box, which may or may not even be a fruit.