Hart, McLeod, Dube, Foote, Formenton charged with sexual assault

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by cam_calderon

I digress because this isn't the right thread, but there is such a thing as personal responsibility and decision-making.

Indeed - as it relates to this discussion and your contributions, I think you should follow your own advice.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by cam_calderon

That's the thing though - not everyone does. In this instance, one thing she could've done is not get blackout drunk. I am not saying this would have made any difference in this instance, and lots of teenagers get blackout drunk weekly, if not daily at college/uni.

Everyone has a difference risk tolerance level. It's risky walking out of your front door.

Maybe she thought sleeping with a champion junior hockey player who was on his way to NHL superstardom was an achievement. Maybe it was purely physical attraction. Another girl may've heard stories of what young men with wildly inflated egos get up to in the bedroom and would stick well clear.

Yuck. This is a gross take.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by Scornfire

You want to tell that to all my female friends who have been drugged on innocent nights out where they only planned on having a few drinks?

It's their fault, they walked out their front door

[Burning Beard]

Originally Posted by FBI

Boy, Eric and Cory sure were talking up how great it was that the Flames have turned the corner and helping their players with mental health situations.. If Dube is indeed one of the 5, the fact that they even lumped the two situations together with helping Kylington is a really bad look.

Do you think Dube approached Cory and Eric and said "hey guys I'm a gang rapist"

They wouldn't know any more than the rest of us.

[cam_calderon]

Originally Posted by Scornfire

You want to tell that to all my female friends who have been drugged on innocent nights out where they only planned on having a few drinks?

I know a couple people who've had their drinks spiked, and it obviously was not their fault. But you have to accept the premise there are sinister people out there and that drinks can be spiked, unless you're happy living in a fantasy land of sunshine and rainbows.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by cam_calderon

I digress because this isn't the right thread, but there is such a thing as personal responsibility and decision-making.

You are going to need to change your signature to a different kind of apologist soon...

There is no amount of 'personal responsibility' that displaces the fact that she went to the room of one player and then was gang raped after that player let seven other players into the room.

[habernac]

Originally Posted by cam_calderon

Put it this way, if anyone here is a parent of a teenage girl I doubt they'd be encouraging them to hang around a known culture of hazing and lack of respect for peers. Being good at hockey brings out the worst in a lot of kids.

I can’t believe you keep typing.

[MacDaddy77]

Where is the fallout for Hockey Canada executives who participated in the payout and coverup.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by cam_calderon

I digress because this isn't the right thread, but there is such a thing as personal responsibility and decision-making.

The only personal responsibility and decision making that is relevant in this situation is on the part of the men who are personally responsible for making the decision to sexually assault a woman.

End of story.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by cam_calderon

I know a couple people who've had their drinks spiked, and it obviously was not their fault. But you have to accept the premise there are sinister people out there and that drinks can be spiked, unless you're happy living in a fantasy land of sunshine and rainbows.

Put the phone down.

Don’t check this thread again.

Just walk away.

It’ll be fine.

[jaydub74]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

There is literally nothing to be said about protecting yourself. Nobody says after a random shooting in the states “you have to protect yourself, why would you go to a movie theatre in a country with so many guns”. Not even sure how one is put in that situation. There is no situation to protect yourself from if everyone else has a moral compass and knows the law.

Totally agree, but the issue is there are individuals out there with no moral compass, who disobey the law or feel they won't get caught.

We can't protect ourselves from everything, but we all take precautions. When you're walking alone at night, do you walk down the dark alley, or choose to walk in areas that are illuminated and populated. I wish we could say we can walk anywhere we want without concern, but that's just not reality.

To be clear, I'm 100% in agreement that the five players are at fault and should be held accountable but I'm also a realist, and when my daughters are older my wife and I will have to explain that not everyone has a moral compass. I wish it was something we didn't have to do.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by cam_calderon

I digress because this isn't the right thread, but there is such a thing as personal responsibility and decision-making.

Rape Culture is wild.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by MacDaddy77

Where is the fallout for Hockey Canada executives who participated in the payout and coverup.

This is a trickier one imo. These executives wouldn't be experts in this type of thing, and they probably were just following high cost legal advice and deferring to that expertise. The police investigated the case and closed it, and then there was a settlement through a court of law. What should they have done? Leaked it to the media after all of that? Maybe...I dunno. The police said there wasn't enough evidence to charge.

If anything, it's on the cops and there should be fallout there. If they charge the players now after re-opening the case, they're effectively saying they botched the first investigation.

[dustygoon]

Several other things can also be true..
- He was involved
- The Flames have a mechanism to support mental health
- He doesn't suffer from mental health issues but abuses this mechanism to hide/deflect from repercussions.

Me and most on here love that the Flames have this support system. Kylington is better for it.

And we hope that this mechanism doesn't get abused by those not needing it. Especially in this kind of circumstance. Future participants may be reluctant to seek help if they think the validity of their condition gets questioned. Or some nebulous threshold of diagnosis is needed.

[Strange Brew]

I have no doubt these 5 players are suffering some acute mental distress right now. I just don't really think that's the story here.

[Wormius]

The victim blaming here is sadly very reminiscent of that in, “To Kill a Tiger”.

[Five-hole]

Originally Posted by cam_calderon

I know a couple people who've had their drinks spiked, and it obviously was not their fault. But you have to accept the premise there are sinister people out there and that drinks can be spiked, unless you're happy living in a fantasy land of sunshine and rainbows.

Bro. Stop.

The world we want to live in is where men are taught not to be sexual predators, not where women are taught how to avoid them.

Blaming women for not taking appropriate precautions -- like, apparently, being in a bar at all -- perpetuates sexual predation. I can't stress it enough that you need to understand that what you are doing is quintessential victim blaming.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by Five-hole

Bro. Stop.

The world we want to live in is where men are taught not to be sexual predators, not where women are taught how to avoid them.

Blaming women for not taking appropriate precautions -- like, apparently, being in a bar at all -- perpetuates sexual predation. I can't stress it enough that you need to understand that what you are doing is quintessential victim blaming.

out of thanks but Thanks

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by cam_calderon

That's the thing though - not everyone does. In this instance, one thing she could've done is not get blackout drunk. I am not saying this would have made any difference in this instance, and lots of teenagers get blackout drunk weekly, if not daily at college/uni.

Everyone has a difference risk tolerance level. It's risky walking out of your front door.

Maybe she thought sleeping with a champion junior hockey player who was on his way to NHL superstardom was an achievement. Maybe it was purely physical attraction. Another girl may've heard stories of what young men with wildly inflated egos get up to in the bedroom and would stick well clear.

Originally Posted by cam_calderon

I digress because this isn't the right thread, but there is such a thing as personal responsibility and decision-making.

Originally Posted by cam_calderon

Put it this way, if anyone here is a parent of a teenage girl I doubt they'd be encouraging them to hang around a known culture of hazing and lack of respect for peers. Being good at hockey brings out the worst in a lot of kids.

Originally Posted by cam_calderon

I know a couple people who've had their drinks spiked, and it obviously was not their fault. But you have to accept the premise there are sinister people out there and that drinks can be spiked, unless you're happy living in a fantasy land of sunshine and rainbows.

Jesus ####ing Christ

Can you please stop.


Or follow your own good advice

Originally Posted by cam_calderon

showing care and compassion is a good start.

[EN FUEGO]

Originally Posted by cam_calderon

I know a couple people who've had their drinks spiked, and it obviously was not their fault. But you have to accept the premise there are sinister people out there and that drinks can be spiked, unless you're happy living in a fantasy land of sunshine and rainbows.

Dude, first off, no amount of drinks makes getting gang raped someone's fault. We all know there are bad people in the world, some of us would like to see them held accountable for their actions so that other bad people will see that there are consequences here.

The world has moved on from the victim blaming that you are gently spilling out on this thread, as it was proven long ago to not be a great rape prevention strategy for society.