Hart, McLeod, Dube, Foote, Formenton charged with sexual assault

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

There are several levels to potential involvement:
- The instigator. The one who took her back to the room and started everything
- Those that were directly involved in the acts
- Those that were there, knew what was happening, and didn't intervene
- Those that were there, didn't know what was happening at the time, but learned afterwards and have been part of covering it up
- Those that weren't there at all

And within that, there would be areas of involvement that the law would be involved with, and other areas where the NHL and teams need to make decisions about how to handle.

I agree. It also sounds like the whole team knew about it, and saw evidence of the crime. No one said anything.

There was likely also a lot of completely awful behaviour that isn't criminal. For example, seeing a video/picture of an unconscious female and laughing about it with your teammates.

[sureLoss]

McLeod and Foote granted absences by the Devils

https://twitter.com/user/status/1750202758324490322

[stang]

Theres 5

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Whynotnow

That attitude is more common than you might think, as shocking as it is.

Yeah, she said that she would never put herself in that situation and taught her daughter the same. She called it a harsh life lesson

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Whynotnow

That attitude is more common than you might think, as shocking as it is.

I've seen a lot of commentary about how the woman put herself in that situation. She shouldn't have agreed to go upstairs with the one player, shouldn't have been drinking, etc....It's all pretty disgusting. Women are allowed to go out and have fun, just like men can.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by jaydub74

End result would be the same, Canada and Switzerland have an agreed extradition treaty.

Yeah, but it'd give him an opportunity to wear the Carmen Sandiego hat and pervert's trenchcoat!

Make the Cops work a little! They've certainly taken their sweet time thus far!

[Locke]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

McLeod and Foote granted absences by the Devils

https://twitter.com/user/status/1750202758324490322

Ugh....and thats Yahtzee.

[Gemnoble]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

Why aren’t they releasing the names? Sorry but they don’t deserve to be protected at this stage.

Innocent until proven guilty. Heinous accusations like these ruin lives, better to be certain then risk the lawsuits that would come of it if they were wrong.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by zuluking

The problem with your argument is that the Flames would need Dube to explain why he is suffering from mental health issues. That's not how it works. If he requested mental health leave and this is supported by a letter from an appropriate health professional, then he's on leave. Period. So you can be sure that he really is legitimately on mental health leave.

WHY he is on leave is no one's business but his own. We can speculate, the Flames can speculate, but no decisions can be made regarding granting mental health leave based on speculation. Of course, it looks bad, but the Flames can't start hedging the messages without real information. Let's pretend that he isn't involved, then would we bash the Flames for leading us on with a more ambiguous statement?

I also don't understand why we would start comparing speculated reasons for mental health leave. Do you know the reason behind Kylington's mental health struggles? Do you know if they are "better" reasons? What exactly has he gone through that is being minimized?

It's odd that for both Kylington and Dube the team put out a communication that it wasn't related to substance abuse. If it turns out that Hart and Dube are both on leave because of this, are they going to have to put out a statement that it is not due to substance abuse, or criminal activity in the future?

On another note, it seems a bit crappy that they do put out the qualifier of not substance abuse, as it further stigmatizes substance abuse as something worse and may prevent others from entering the program.

[Reggie Dunlop]

When's the deadline to surrender?

[Engine09]

Originally Posted by Whynotnow

That attitude is more common than you might think, as shocking as it is.

I was going to say exactly that. I have a male coworker who commented that any Hollywood actress who accused directors/producers of rape is lying and had sex willingly to get roles. Basically went on to call them sluts, etc. This guy has a daughter.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Well that is not good at all.

[cam_calderon]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Yeah, she said that she would never put herself in that situation and taught her daughter the same. She called it a harsh life lesson

Young people are going to have sex with each other. If you go to a bar to pick up someone, unfortunately there's never a 0 per cent chance the other party will have sinister intentions.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Yeah, she said that she would never put herself in that situation and taught her daughter the same. She called it a harsh life lesson

If someone made that statement in a group setting in our office she'd be fired.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

Eh if your choice is international fugitive or domestic inmate…

Canada has an extradition treaty with Switzerland. Suspect his lawyer informed him of this reality.

[Torture]

So are we going to talk about the fact that the Flames said Dube was leaving 'to attend to his mental health'?

Cause oof Flames. All of a sudden that statement is not a great look.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by calf

Rick Westhead will be leading the charge and the usual talking heads will be noticeably silent, again.

This last report was by Robyn Doolittle. Westhead was good, but he's not the only one bringing out reporting on this.

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Several things can be true at once
- He could be involved
- He could be suffering from poor mental health, including because of that involvement
- As a member of their organization (as he is right now) the Flames are in position to offer support
- They then have to choose if he will be part of the org going forward (either suspended, released, or not signed) AND if they want to continue to offer support for his mental wellness.

Mental support and treatment is offered to convicted criminals. Being accused or guilty of something doesn't prevent that from happening. The question is what else happens and what decisions do the NHL and Flames make from here (if he's involved).

But I don't see this as weaponizing mental health at all.

The Flames press release was going to generate 'hey we are good guys and care about mental health' and 'Dube is going through something, please support him' responses. If he's part of it - its a bad look.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

Now pause for a moment…..and consider the unfortunate young woman victimized by a group of overly entitled “boys”. Her life and well-being is likely in tatters and she isn’t making millions annually in front of adoring crowds.

You might think about how you would feel if she were your sister or daughter…

That is the only way I think of it. Not overly concerned about the guys involved. If they are found guilty they have lots of money and can pump gas or whatever former NHLer convicted criminals do. If they are found not guilty beyond a reasonable doubt they can go back to hockey.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by blankall

I've seen a lot of commentary about how the woman put herself in that situation. She shouldn't have agreed to go upstairs with the one player, shouldn't have been drinking, etc....It's all pretty disgusting. Women are allowed to go out and have fun, just like men can.

Shouldn't have 'dressed provocatively' and blah, blah, blah. Its such bulls####.

I've got an idea...maybe women should be allowed to go out and not be raped by men just not raping them?

A novel tactic! Perhaps we should give it a run?

[jaydub74]

Originally Posted by blankall

I've seen a lot of commentary about how the woman put herself in that situation. She shouldn't have agreed to go upstairs with the one player, shouldn't have been drinking, etc....It's all pretty disgusting. Women are allowed to go out and have fun, just like men can.

There is certainly something to be said about protecting yourself or "not putting yourself in a such situation", but that doesn't give these five guys the right to take advantage of someone in that situation. Regardless of the "situation" the onus is on the perpetrators to make the proper ethical and legal decision.