2023/2024 Trade Rumors and Speculation Thread

[NewFan]

I don't expect a great returns from trading our players. Hopefully we can get a couple of late 1sts and couple of prospects with some potential to become top 6 and top 4 players.
So most important thing is our draft pick. We really need to draft top 3 next 2 years.
We have a chance to draft top 5 this year if start trading our Ufas now. Choose 2025s 2026s 1sts when trading.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by NewFan

I don't expect a great returns from trading our players. Hopefully we can get a couple of late 1sts and couple of prospects with some potential to become top 6 and top 4 players.
So most important thing is our draft pick. We really need to draft top 3 next 2 years.
We have a chance to draft top 5 this year if start trading our Ufas now. Choose 2025s 2026s 1sts when trading.

Well I agree, the Flames generally need more picks.

Top 3 drafting, simply is not going to happen.

They likely are a bubble team right to the end of the season, making them in the teens somewhere.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by TOfan

We would be a better team right now had Treliving made that trade? What evidence is there to support this?

There's no telling what trajectory that could have set the Flames on but I think it's safe to say they would have immediately been worse and the same cohort, Lanny included, who criticizes the team would have been equally as critical for 'selling low' on Gaudreau at the time.

Amazing that you guys can't seem to recognize the perpetual position/bias you take.

Gaudreau' eventual departure had more to do with Gaudreau's backing out of a verbal agreement at the last hour than it does with Treliving (and Conroy and Maloney) handling of the situation.

Gaudreau was an obvious guy to trade. He was either going to walk for nothing or get signed to a very expensive deal and not be worth the money. He's also not the type of player you want to build your offence around for the playoffs, especially into his 30s. Losing Gaudreau for nothing was ultimately better than being stuck with his contract, though.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by flambers

Well I agree, the Flames generally need more picks.

Top 3 drafting, simply is not going to happen.

They likely are a bubble team right to the end of the season, making them in the teens somewhere.

They're at number 9 right now.

Looking back a couple of years, here's what the 9th overall gets you:
2021 - Guenther
2020 - Rossi
2019 - Zegras
2018 - Kravtsov
2017 - Rasmussen
2016 - Sergachev
2015 - Meier
2014 - Ehlers
2013 - Horvat
2012 - Trouba
2011 - D. Hamilton

That's not a bad group. Some pretty good players combined with top 4D, and top 6F.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Might want to look in the mirror. The "support management regardless of their incompetence" crowd is more annoying than anything around. You can't even admit that Treliving drove this team over a cliff and then ####ed off to Toronto for his dream job. Can't even admit that. And we have a perpetual position/bias? Just a little bit of the pot calling the kettle black.



No. Just no. The Gaudreau situation became an untenable disaster waiting to happen the second Treliving relinquished control and gave it to the player by allowing it to get into the final year of the contract. A small market team has to be ruthless and always maintain control. The second you lose control is the second you assume risk of every bad thing that could possibly happen. Treliving was a fool for doing so. He hurt the team and crushed any chance of building with the core he threw his lot in with. The right play was to extend Gaudreau at the $8.5 he was asking, knowing the cap was going up and would act as a hedge, and not allow the player to get to camp without an extension. But Brad, being the smartest guy in the room, thought he would roll the dice and wait Gaudreau out. Mistake after mistake led to the loss of Gaudreau, Tkachuk, and soon to be Lindholm. Successful teams don't make these mistakes.

To be clear, the Flames wanted Treliving back. Ownership hitched their wagon to Sutter only to have the wheels fall off weeks later. If you're going to unload on someone/something at least be mindful of the circumstances from which they're emanating from, opposed to looking for that one throat you need to choke. It was/is a mess but it's not all on Treliving. He deserves his fair share of responsibility, perhaps the most as GM, but I strongly suspect his decisions were supported by others and maybe even overrode by others.

[Vinny01]

How off is this trade with the Flyers?

To Flyers: Hanifin+Lindholm (both 50% retained)+Mangiapane
To Flames: Frost+Farabee+York+conditional 1st (worse of Flyers/Panthers 24 1st)

The Flames get 3 guys aged 23-24 and a first for a 27, 28, and 29 year old.

[Toonage]

A single first for Lindholm & Hanifin with max retention? The rest doesn't make up for it.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

How off is this trade with the Flyers?

To Flyers: Hanifin+Lindholm (both 50% retained)+Mangiapane
To Flames: Frost+Farabee+York+conditional 1st (worse of Flyers/Panthers 24 1st)

The Flames get 3 guys aged 23-24 and a first for a 27, 28, and 29 year old.

Would you trade Sharangovich + Zary + Pospisil + 1st for such a package if the Flames were ~11th in the league this year? I know I wouldn't. Everyone thought that the Flyers were heading into a rebuild until they got the Tortorella bump.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by TOfan

To be clear, the Flames wanted Treliving back. Ownership hitched their wagon to Sutter only to have the wheels fall off weeks later. If you're going to unload on someone/something at least be mindful of the circumstances from which they're emanating from, opposed to looking for that one throats you need to choke. It was/is a mess but it's not all on Treliving. He deserves his fair share of responsibility, perhaps the most as GM, but I strongly suspect his decisions were supported by others and maybe even overrode by others.

I agree, but by wanting Treliving back, ownership was hitching their wagons to both Sutter and Treliving, and Treliving decided to bolt. We have no clue in which direction the ownership would have gone in had either one of them given an ultimatum on whether one stays or not predicated on whether the other remains.



Also, do we KNOW that Treliving wouldn't have walked away regardless of Sutter's status at the time? Maybe he knew there was a chance at Toronto, or was just tired of being here, or both? Are we so sure that if Sutter was fired immediately after the season ended, that Treliving would have re-signed here right away, or would he still have 'explored' his options for a while?



it also sounds as if Treliving often made decisions by himself with the 'closed door' talk, and how Conroy wants MORE opinions and discussions on decisions. From that regard, it does at least suggest that perhaps Treliving deserves more of both the blame for the mistakes, as well as the accolades for the successes.

[shutout]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

How off is this trade with the Flyers?

To Flyers: Hanifin+Lindholm (both 50% retained)+Mangiapane
To Flames: Frost+Farabee+York+conditional 1st (worse of Flyers/Panthers 24 1st)

The Flames get 3 guys aged 23-24 and a first for a 27, 28, and 29 year old.

Except that Briere seems like the sort of GM that is looking at this Flyers team at the start of a journey with more dead weight to be removed as opposed to being in a window of opportunity to win now.

I don't see the Flyers as a team at this stage that wants to get rid of 3 guys aged 23-24.

[TOfan]

Been said here and other places as well but I think the Horvat deal is a good comparison of what the Flames should be looking for.
If they can get a 1st (18-25 let’s say), good prospect, and a camp dump that has a ‘flipable’ ability to it would be a nice package.

[Royle9]

Flyers aren't making that trade, they've verbally committed to a rebuild/re-tool and those guys don't help.

Keith Jones himself said they aren't trading futures.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

Would you trade Sharangovich + Zary + Pospisil + 1st for such a package if the Flames were ~11th in the league this year? I know I wouldn't. Everyone thought that the Flyers were heading into a rebuild until they got the Tortorella bump.

I mean I would consider it if the pieces the flames were getting could be signed long term. I know the Flyers are likely on a timeline for the future so adding the Flames older 20’s vets might not make sense but I see Lindholm and Mangiapane being Torts type guys and Hanifin makes sense for almost any team due to his age.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Royle9

Flyers aren't making that trade, they've verbally committed to a rebuild/re-tool and those guys don't help.

Keith Jones himself said they aren't trading futures.

Outside of the late 1st they aren’t really trading futures but more so trading some younger guys who were brought in by the previous regime and some of these players have been mentioned as not the best fit with Torts.

I see this being a retool trade for both teams. Flyers don’t touch any top prospects and trade only 1 late pick

[All In Good Time]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I mean I would consider it if the pieces the flames were getting could be signed long term. I know the Flyers are likely on a timeline for the future so adding the Flames older 20’s vets might not make sense but I see Lindholm and Mangiapane being Torts type guys and Hanifin makes sense for almost any team due to his age.

Unfortunately
With how lindholm is playing this year and his contract aspirations, I see his value at an all time low

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Toonage

A single first for Lindholm & Hanifin with max retention? The rest doesn't make up for it.

I see it as the retooling the Flames hope to do while remaining competitive. The drop off in talent you would hope is made up for the upside and more team control.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I mean I would consider it if the pieces the flames were getting could be signed long term. I know the Flyers are likely on a timeline for the future so adding the Flames older 20’s vets might not make sense but I see Lindholm and Mangiapane being Torts type guys and Hanifin makes sense for almost any team due to his age.

I understand that perspective, but it seems a very high risk to take, essentially replacing so many future, cost controlled assets for guys you'd have to overpay to keep.

That's why I don't think that such a package is very realistic. Most likely, every Flames UFA will go to a different team, so that the acquisition cost isn't as high.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

I understand that perspective, but it seems a very high risk to take, essentially replacing so many future, cost controlled assets for guys you'd have to overpay to keep.

That's why I don't think that such a package is very realistic. Most likely, every Flames UFA will go to a different team, so that the acquisition cost isn't as high.

Frost and York do not feel like high value core pieces for the Flyers. Frost has been a healthy scratch and in the dog house. Farabee has been up and down the past couple of years and York does not have the upside of Hanifin. It all comes down to how much the Flyers view those guys as long term pieces bs expendable assets not core to their rebuild.

[dissentowner]

I see Team Negative has hijacked this thread, yay...

[camm13]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I’d imagine a first and a mid-prospect. I don’t think we’re going to get much more than that from anyone for Lindholm. He’s been outright poor this season, and the acquiring team will be banking on his previous seasons and reputation.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1748950730223005934

We’re lucky we did not extend him.

We're lucky that he rejected he offer. He's not getting close to what he was offered in the open market either this kind of play. Conroy and crew dodged a big bullet.