[Rumour] Jacob Markstrom...rumour? <Kevin Weekes does dumb eyeball thing on X>

[Lanny_McDonald]

I really hope people temper their expectations when it comes to returns. The names being tossed around are crazy. When was the last time a team moved their top prospect at the deadline in a deal? And save all the retention horse#### because it doesn't matter. You're not getting big returns for retaining a million dollars in real money. Unless there is a real hockey trade made you're going to be looking at "B" level prospects, not blue chip prospects or young guys contributing on NHL teams already. The cap has made each team's blue chip prospects untouchable. You need them to make your team better and maximize your cap space. Turn the trades around. Would you make the deals suggested if these prospects were owned by the Flames? Not a chance. Not even Treliving was willing to bite and the Leafs have crap prospects.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

It would make me absolutely giddy if the Leafs missed the playoffs in Tre's first season there

They have 13 regulation wins and have played the easier half of their schedule...it looks 50/50 to me

Caps, Islanders, Pens, Devils, Leafs, Lightning, Wings are more or less in a dead heat

3 spots

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

I really hope people temper their expectations when it comes to returns. The names being tossed around are crazy. When was the last time a team moved their top prospect at the deadline in a deal? And save all the retention horse#### because it doesn't matter. You're not getting big returns for retaining a million dollars in real money. Unless there is a real hockey trade made you're going to be looking at "B" level prospects, not blue chip prospects or young guys contributing on NHL teams already. The cap has made each team's blue chip prospects untouchable. You need them to make your team better and maximize your cap space. Turn the trades around. Would you make the deals suggested if these prospects were owned by the Flames? Not a chance. Not even Treliving was willing to bite and the Leafs have crap prospects.

The names being thrown around are being thrown around because the Flames have a #1 goalie others teams covet but that the Flames also covet and loves playing in Calgary. Like I said earlier, it would take a vast overpayment to get the Flames to try and convince Marky to waive his NMC and thus why I would be shocked if he moves.

[dino7c]

desperate times call for desperate measures...and yeah it's what it would take

Why move Markstom if it's not WELL worth it?

beat the Leafs tomorrow, they might fall out of a playoff spot, that would really turn up the heat

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

The names being thrown around are being thrown around because the Flames have a #1 goalie others teams covet but that the Flames also covet and loves playing in Calgary. Like I said earlier, it would take a vast overpayment to get the Flames to try and convince Marky to waive his NMC and thus why I would be shocked if he moves.

First, moving Markstrom would be a hockey trade. Potential for a bigger name is better, but not a top player. Second, when was the last time a goaltender was moved for a significant amount? What top prospect or top young player on another team was moved for a starting goaltender? You may suggest Markstrom has a lot of interest around the league but I'm not so sure. I think there are still concerns about Markstrom's meltdown against the Oilers and that is going to impact return. Whether Markstrom likes Calgary is irrelevant. A team will only pay what they think he is worth and where he likes to play doesn't increase their offer. Third, the Flames will not retain to move him. They may eat a bad contract to facilitate a deal but they will not be paying another player to play for another team for the next two seasons. Not their style and not Edwards' style. Finally, teams taking on Markstrom and his salary are going to need as many of their top young players as possible to balance out the cap. So I don't see any shape or fashion where Markstrom brings a big return. History seems to point to it as unlikely to happen.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

First, moving Markstrom would be a hockey trade. Potential for a bigger name is better, but not a top player. Second, when was the last time a goaltender was moved for a significant amount? What top prospect or top young player on another team was moved for a starting goaltender? You may suggest Markstrom has a lot of interest around the league but I'm not so sure. I think there are still concerns about Markstrom's meltdown against the Oilers and that is going to impact return. Whether Markstrom likes Calgary is irrelevant. A team will only pay what they think he is worth and where he likes to play doesn't increase their offer. Third, the Flames will not retain to move him. They may eat a bad contract to facilitate a deal but they will not be paying another player to play for another team for the next two seasons. Not their style and not Edwards' style. Finally, teams taking on Markstrom and his salary are going to need as many of their top young players as possible to balance out the cap. So I don't see any shape or fashion where Markstrom brings a big return. History seems to point to it as unlikely to happen.

You seem to be missing the point here, the Flames are not shopping Markstrom and don't want to move him. There has been teams that have reached out to Conroy about Markstrom and he has basically told them that unless they make an offer he can't refuse he won't even entertain it. It is like if you and I were art collectors and I had a piece others coveted but I really liked that piece and didn't want to move it. Now if you were to offer me way more value than it's worth than maybe I would reconsider. That is why I said all along I would be shocked if the Flames trade Markstrom, they would rather keep him.

[dino7c]

Exactly, the Flames have zero pressure to move him so blow the doors off or save your breath

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

First, moving Markstrom would be a hockey trade. Potential for a bigger name is better, but not a top player. Second, when was the last time a goaltender was moved for a significant amount? What top prospect or top young player on another team was moved for a starting goaltender? You may suggest Markstrom has a lot of interest around the league but I'm not so sure. I think there are still concerns about Markstrom's meltdown against the Oilers and that is going to impact return. Whether Markstrom likes Calgary is irrelevant. A team will only pay what they think he is worth and where he likes to play doesn't increase their offer. Third, the Flames will not retain to move him. They may eat a bad contract to facilitate a deal but they will not be paying another player to play for another team for the next two seasons. Not their style and not Edwards' style. Finally, teams taking on Markstrom and his salary are going to need as many of their top young players as possible to balance out the cap. So I don't see any shape or fashion where Markstrom brings a big return. History seems to point to it as unlikely to happen.

I don’t have the time or inclination but it would be the least surprising thing to come across posts from Lanny, pre summer 2022, with him/her prattling on about how no one will ever do a sign and trade in the nhl, least of all, the Flames.

Sean McIndoe has a pretty funny comment he likes to make every once in a while ‘I wish I was as confident about anything in my life as random hockey fans are in the comments section’…..Lanny to a T.

Don’t change, bud.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

I think there are still concerns about Markstrom's meltdown against the Oilers and that is going to impact return.

They're going to look at more than just one series. Because guess what, like players some of the best goalies can have a bad series sometimes and GMs know that. And it's not like the team played great in front of him and he blew it. Everyone blew it.

[dino7c]

Markstom's ratio of good series to bad is better than most goalies anyway

Minny, St.Louis, Dallas GREAT
Edmonton BAD
Vegas (push, good then injured)

add recent 2nd and 4th place Vezina finishes

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by dino7c

They have 13 regulation wins and have played the easier half of their schedule...it looks 50/50 to me

Caps, Islanders, Pens, Devils, Leafs, Lightning, Wings are more or less in a dead heat

3 spots

Similar race in the west with Oilers, Kings, Flames, Kraken, Blues, Coyotes, Preds and maybe the wild for 3 spots. Lots of parity in the league.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

You seem to be missing the point here, the Flames are not shopping Markstrom and don't want to move him. There has been teams that have reached out to Conroy about Markstrom and he has basically told them that unless they make an offer he can't refuse he won't even entertain it. It is like if you and I were art collectors and I had a piece others coveted but I really liked that piece and didn't want to move it. Now if you were to offer me way more value than it's worth than maybe I would reconsider. That is why I said all along I would be shocked if the Flames trade Markstrom, they would rather keep him.

Oh I get your point. You're hoping to turn a soft market into a huge return and are using every single (limited) positive as a reason to increase expectations for that return. I'm listing all the reasons we should be tempering expectations should Markstrom be moved. You continue to ignore the obvious and believe that something is possible that rarely, if ever, has happened.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Oh I get your point. You're hoping to turn a soft market into a huge return and are using every single (limited) positive as a reason to increase expectations for that return. I'm listing all the reasons we should be tempering expectations should Markstrom be moved. You continue to ignore the obvious and believe that something is possible that rarely, if ever, has happened.

I think the point is that unless it's a big return, there is no reason to move him.

The order of likely scenarios:

Stays put
trade for big return
trade for average return

You can temper expectations of him moving, but I don't think you should temper expectations in the unlikely event he is moved.

[Enoch Root]

Except Markstrom WON'T be moved, if the return is not significant. That is the point. Either it's a great return, or there's no trade.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Yeah that'd be great, but he won't

Correct. A team gearing up for a playoff run doesn’t trade away one of its top six forwards.

[CalgaryFan1988]

Did Conroy not mention earlier in the season that Wolf belongs in the NHL and that he'd try and make room for him (or something to that effect)? Or did I dream that? If so, he must be somewhat entertaining the idea of moving one of the goalies. And I agree that moving Markstrom only makes sense if someone knocks his socks off.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

I think the point is that unless it's a big return, there is no reason to move him.

And what would that BIG return look like? That is the question. Historically, goaltenders have been traded for very little. Even when some of the best goaltenders in the game have been moved the returns have been underwhelming. Most have been packaged to hedge against the "goaltenders are voodoo" aspect. Goaltenders rarely garner a big return, so if you go in with that expectation a big return is much different than what is being discussed. We're seeing the names from some of the best young talent in the game being bounced around, which has never happened at the trade deadline let alone in a trade for a goaltender. That wouldn't be a big return, that would be an astronomical return. To me, a 1st rounder is probably a stretch considering the cap hit. That would be a big return as we would get a good pick and $6M of cap space. That's a BIG return. Based on history, a realistic good return is a "B" level prospect, a salary dump, and a pick commiserate to the salary we have to eat. A BIG return would be getting that deal done without eating a bad salary in return IMO.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

And what would that BIG return look like? That is the question. Historically, goaltenders have been traded for very little. Even when some of the best goaltenders in the game have been moved the returns have been underwhelming. Most have been packaged to hedge against the "goaltenders are voodoo" aspect. Goaltenders rarely garner a big return, so if you go in with that expectation a big return is much different than what is being discussed. We're seeing the names from some of the best young talent in the game being bounced around, which has never happened at the trade deadline let alone in a trade for a goaltender. That wouldn't be a big return, that would be an astronomical return. To me, a 1st rounder is probably a stretch considering the cap hit. That would be a big return as we would get a good pick and $6M of cap space. That's a BIG return. Based on history, a realistic good return is a "B" level prospect, a salary dump, and a pick commiserate to the salary we have to eat. A BIG return would be getting that deal done without eating a bad salary in return IMO.

I don’t think anyone knows the answer to that.

Depends on how desperate a team may be to obtain him, and how badly Calgary wants to retain him.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

Did Conroy not mention earlier in the season that Wolf belongs in the NHL and that he'd try and make room for him (or something to that effect)? Or did I dream that? If so, he must be somewhat entertaining the idea of moving one of the goalies. And I agree that moving Markstrom only makes sense if someone knocks his socks off.

I expect Calgary has been trying to find a taker in Vladar, but his poor play and continuing larger cap hit ( for a back up) has made it impossible.

[Macindoc]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

And what would that BIG return look like? That is the question. Historically, goaltenders have been traded for very little. Even when some of the best goaltenders in the game have been moved the returns have been underwhelming. Most have been packaged to hedge against the "goaltenders are voodoo" aspect. Goaltenders rarely garner a big return, so if you go in with that expectation a big return is much different than what is being discussed. We're seeing the names from some of the best young talent in the game being bounced around, which has never happened at the trade deadline let alone in a trade for a goaltender. That wouldn't be a big return, that would be an astronomical return. To me, a 1st rounder is probably a stretch considering the cap hit. That would be a big return as we would get a good pick and $6M of cap space. That's a BIG return. Based on history, a realistic good return is a "B" level prospect, a salary dump, and a pick commiserate to the salary we have to eat. A BIG return would be getting that deal done without eating a bad salary in return IMO.

That is assuming that the Flames are interested in moving Markstrom. Which they're not. Conroy's position will be that he will only move Markstrom (or any other player not on an expiring contract) if the offer is too good to refuse. Your "realistic" offer is not too good to refuse, so it will be refused, and no trade will happen if this is the best offer. So yes, it probably won't happen, but if it does happen, it will be big. I can see the Flames taking on a cap dump on an expiring contract to make the salary work (and there will have to be compensation for this), but you are right that they will not retain on Markstrom.