I don't think you've considered people who don't live in a house with a garage, or a building where each parking stall has a plug-in or, hell, may not even get anything other than on-street permit parking, which I would wager based off of this is likely around 40% of dwellings.
Even for them, you can't park in the ice charging station at the mall while shopping, or fill up at work while you're there, or fill your car up while you're eating dinner at a restaurant, etc. Yes it will be a slightly bigger inconvenience for minority of people, but only very slightly. It'll still be cheaper to own and we're taking an additional 10-15 minutes of their life every week.
However, on the flip side, charging a vehicle means you don't have to stand in the cold with your hands on a pump. For those without off street parking, they have many "filling up" options with less inconvenience than filling a gas powered car. The whole paradigm is different for everyone.
In the future, there will likely be inductive charging stalls too, plus charging times are dropping extremely fast. Just 5 years ago the average EV was lucky to charge at 100kW, now there's 350kW chargers going in. The Chevy bolt took 45 minutes to go from 5% to 80% and the new Hyundai EV6 takes 19 minutes. These things are changing very fast
As predicted, Rachel Notely has resigned as the leader of the NDP. They will now be going into a leadership race. Take Back Alberta will be travelling the province in the coming months encouraging people to buy memberships in the NDP and make their voices heard. Democracy is the path out of this mess. When the NDP cancel their leadership race, we will know they no longer believe in democracy.
#WeAreComing
What exactly is TBA going to do in the NDP voting race? Vote for the least progressive candidate? And what 'mess' is there with the official opposition that is currently afflicting the government?
Is David Parker secretly moist for an alternative to the Wildrose United Party?
Kind of stark how authentic Notley sounds in a speech as opposed to Smith. Maybe it's the lack of focus on an 'evil other', and instead talking about Alberta internal matters.
__________________
"By Grabthar's hammer ... what a savings."
Even for them, you can't park in the ice charging station at the mall while shopping, or fill up at work while you're there, or fill your car up while you're eating dinner at a restaurant, etc. Yes it will be a slightly bigger inconvenience for minority of people, but only very slightly. It'll still be cheaper to own and we're taking an additional 10-15 minutes of their life every week.
You can't really do that with an EV either. Mall, sure, that's an option if you park underground, but as more people get EVs, those charging spots will become harder to get. Work? That is most definitely in the vast minority of workplaces. Restaurants? Wat? Also, sure it's a minority 'technically', but that's still damn near half the dwellings in Calgary (if not more, given not every detached and semi-detached house has a garage) that don't have the at-home option.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist
However, on the flip side, charging a vehicle means you don't have to stand in the cold with your hands on a pump. For those without off street parking, they have many "filling up" options with less inconvenience than filling a gas powered car. The whole paradigm is different for everyone.
Exit vehicle, pay, insert nozzle, click the little handle lock in place, go back inside still warm car and wait 5 minutes for the pump to click off when full (if it's that cold out). Way more convenient than having to wait 20-30 minutes to 80% charge or having to bounce around to multiple chargers because I only wanted to wait a few minutes for a partial charge.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist
In the future, there will likely be inductive charging stalls too, plus charging times are dropping extremely fast. Just 5 years ago the average EV was lucky to charge at 100kW, now there's 350kW chargers going in. The Chevy bolt took 45 minutes to go from 5% to 80% and the new Hyundai EV6 takes 19 minutes. These things are changing very fast
Ah, well if we're talking about the future, then I'm still waiting for the flying cars from the Jetsons. In the meanwhile, I would think the average person's concerns around -- and the practical implications of -- owning an EV today are very much the product of what is available today. I'm certain it will be better in the future, but people buy what fits their needs for both now and the foreseeable future.
__________________
-James
GO FLAMES GO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azure
Typical dumb take.
The Following User Says Thank You to TorqueDog For This Useful Post:
As predicted, Rachel Notely has resigned as the leader of the NDP. They will now be going into a leadership race. Take Back Alberta will be travelling the province in the coming months encouraging people to buy memberships in the NDP and make their voices heard. Democracy is the path out of this mess. When the NDP cancel their leadership race, we will know they no longer believe in democracy.
#WeAreComing
I grew to like Notley over time, but honestly if she couldn't beat a certifiable lunatic in Smitty here then her time was up and they needed someone else.
I dont really know what else to say about Notley. She was such an idiot for so much of her tenure and generated so much 'bad blood' against the NDP in this Province that her position really became untenable.
I respect her a lot of sticking around and trying and attempting to keep this Government stable and on task from the position of the opposition. Most people wouldnt have done that.
But once she couldnt beat Smitty in an election it was pretty clearly over for her.
__________________ The Beatings Shall Continue Until Morale Improves!
This Post Has Been Distilled for the Eradication of Seemingly Incurable Sadness.
The World Ends when you're dead. Until then, you've got more punishment in store. - Flames Fans
If you thought this season would have a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention.
The Following User Says Thank You to Locke For This Useful Post:
We aren't going to have level 3 in homes, it's just too much voltage and amperage(for normal, not rich people).
It's easy to hand wave away challenges, and even easier for those who have no issues to say "see, it's this easy" but everyone has different lives, needs, challenges etc. Not everyone has a garage and charging for every vehicle everyone at the house needs. Street parking means no charging. Driveway? Well, that's another expensive charger, and maybe not so nice to have to plug in every day. People get busy grabbing groceries or kids and forget to plug in. So the consequences of having a low charge in an EV are typically worse than being low on gas, and the solution is not 5 minutes.
I think people just need to have a realistic view and info before they get soured by Great Expectations.
It's just manageable challenges vs. unmanageable ones.
I can completely understand people's general every day procrastination where you have to put some clothes on and have to drive 5-10 minutes to a gas station and take time out of your day to do this.
I cannot for something that's attached to your house. Your scenario where you grab groceries and kids and forget? That's fine and even expected! You can do this 5-7 days in a row and still be okay. You can also throw on some slippers and fix it in 15 seconds at any point within this period of time where you have so much going on.
In terms of this as a challenge, it's similar to saying "my phone is dead, I refuse to meet the minimum bar of living a modern human existence and get up to plug it in, and so, electricity as a means to power a phone is completely broken" - I mean you never had to when it was always plugged in to a landline and it even worked during power outages!
And yes, for those that don't have access to at home charging (as well as various niche use cases like needing to drive 600km when it's -35C outside), I would not recommend an EV for them at this point. This is totally okay! ICE cars are going to be around for a long time, and perhaps one day EV technology will hit a point where your specific use case will be covered.
Regardless, I'm really not here to change anyone's mind. It's just interesting what problems people come up with for EV owners, when actual EV owners themselves don't suffer those same challenges.
Regardless, I'm really not here to change anyone's mind. It's just interesting what problems people come up with for EV owners, when actual EV owners themselves don't suffer those same challenges.
But actual EV owners today are a narrow and unrepresentative slice of the population. Widespread EV adoption will mean making the technology affordable and practical to people with different means and lifestyles.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
The Following User Says Thank You to CliffFletcher For This Useful Post:
But actual EV owners today are a narrow and unrepresentative slice of the population. Widespread EV adoption will mean making the technology affordable and practical to people with different means and lifestyles.
Correct. EV's aren't for everyone right now.
But I bet they would be optimal for 90% of CP posters (ie. affluent, urban, owns their own home) if people looked at them objectively and didn't create negative scenarios based on caricatures of people like the overstressed single mom that can't perform basic menial tasks for 15 seconds, or the last minute procrastinating shopper that needs an EV charging space in chinook mall but can't find one.
It's just interesting what problems people come up with for EV owners, when actual EV owners themselves don't suffer those same challenges.
... immediately after you just finishing typing this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Regorium
And yes, for those that don't have access to at home charging (as well as various niche use cases like needing to drive 600km when it's -35C outside), I would not recommend an EV for them at this point.
... when the context of the discussion is the barrier to entry for EV ownership and the considerations people would have prior to adoption?
No one is talking about EV owners; they already own one because they've already gone through the exercise of ensuring these things aren't an issue (usually by having a second ICE vehicle, heh). EV owners tend to live in places with garages or parking lots, etc. that have some sort of charging infrastructure available.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Regorium
But I bet they would be optimal for 90% of CP posters (ie. affluent, urban, owns their own home) if people looked at them objectively and didn't create negative scenarios based on caricatures of people like the overstressed single mom that can't perform basic menial tasks for 15 seconds, or the last minute procrastinating shopper that needs an EV charging space in chinook mall but can't find one.
You really have missed the point spectacularly, sir.
How do you type this... ... immediately after you just finishing typing this:... when the context of the discussion is the barrier to entry for EV ownership and the considerations people would have prior to adoption?
No one is talking about EV owners; they already own one because they've already gone through the exercise of ensuring these things aren't an issue (usually by having a second ICE vehicle, heh). EV owners tend to live in places with garages or parking lots, etc. that have some sort of charging infrastructure available.
You really have missed the point spectacularly, sir.
In this thread, the conversation started because Locke said that he would never get an EV because it has variable range in cold weather. You chimed and said that it's annoying to recharge - to which EV owners basically said "it isn't annoying at all."
I don't see discussion about broad adoption of EV's at all. Maybe there was some missing context from other threads?
Kind of a strange tweet since Stephen Carter doesn't represent the NDP, don't think he is a member, nor is he running any campaigns that we're aware of at this time...
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Torture For This Useful Post:
I grew to like Notley over time, but honestly if she couldn't beat a certifiable lunatic in Smitty here then her time was up and they needed someone else.
It was time for her to hand the reigns over but you can't deny the impact that Notley has had on Alberta politics. The NDP weren't even a consideration before her, she managed to break up the Conservative dynasty, (arguably causing the WRP to eat the PCs...) and our elections finally seem to be competitive rather than an exercise in seeing how much the blue team can run up the score. Big shoes to fill for whomever replaces her. Will be very interesting to see who emerges as the leader and where they take the party.
In this thread, the conversation started because Locke said that he would never get an EV because it has variable range in cold weather. You chimed and said that it's annoying to recharge - to which EV owners basically said "it isn't annoying at all."
I don't see discussion about broad adoption of EV's at all. Maybe there was some missing context from other threads?
My comment to Mazrim's comment on Locke's post -- ending with EVs would be annoying for charging in some situations -- was being responded to which really started the whole sidebar about EV stuff (that really should be in a different thread anyway). As someone whose parking stalls do not have a provision for charging that I could leverage, I could very easily see someone in my situation take these sort of things into consideration. Hell, it's something I would take into consideration on picking an EV -- specifically, how fast it will charge so I don't have to wait around for this crap that would take me sub-five minutes in an ICE. How the EV early adopters have fared is moot, because as Cliff points out they're not exactly representative of the population, and nor am I in some ways, but at least on this point I know I likely am closer aligned.
Anyway, we can conclude this conversation since there's actually thing happening in government to talk about.
__________________
-James
GO FLAMES GO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azure
Typical dumb take.
The Following User Says Thank You to TorqueDog For This Useful Post:
What exactly is TBA going to do in the NDP voting race? Vote for the least progressive candidate? And what 'mess' is there with the official opposition that is currently afflicting the government?
Is David Parker secretly moist for an alternative to the Wildrose United Party?
He does realize that means he also becomes a member of the Federal NDP and must sign a declaration that he is not a supporter of any other political party?
__________________
@PR_NHL
The @NHLFlames are the first team to feature four players each with 50+ points within their first 45 games of a season since the Penguins in 1995-96 (Ron Francis, Mario Lemieux, Jaromir Jagr, Tomas Sandstrom).
Fuzz - "He didn't speak to the media before the election, either."
The Following User Says Thank You to belsarius For This Useful Post:
In this thread, the conversation started because Locke said that he would never get an EV because it has variable range in cold weather. You chimed and said that it's annoying to recharge - to which EV owners basically said "it isn't annoying at all."
I don't see discussion about broad adoption of EV's at all. Maybe there was some missing context from other threads?
I just think some EV owners find that it isn't much of an issue, and then assume everyone else who does have issues is doing it wrong, or don't exist.
I had actually just read this story this morning:
