Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[Torture]

Originally Posted by Eric Vail

This aren't Canadian studies and they clearly aren't about teachers. They are about the "higher paying jobs". Teachers are all paid by the same collective agreement. A ten year teacher makes the same as a 40 year teacher.

It sounds more corporate to me.

That was my point - that it's more widespread than singling out retired teachers as a problem.

[Eric Vail]

Originally Posted by Slava

Is that accurate though? I don't think it's legal to just fire someone or not have a position for them to go back to? Maybe they don't necessarily stay at the same school teaching the same things, but it's not like you take time for parental leave and then find yourself out of a job and starting at entry level salary? That just sounds wrong.

A teacher can take their medical leave, and then the board will usually give them a year leave of absence. After that, they have to resign and apply for employment when they are ready to return.

[Torture]

Originally Posted by Slava

Is that accurate though? I don't think it's legal to just fire someone or not have a position for them to go back to? Maybe they don't necessarily stay at the same school teaching the same things, but it's not like you take time for parental leave and then find yourself out of a job and starting at entry level salary? That just sounds wrong.

Yeah - maternity/paternity leave is job protected regardless of who you work for/where you work in Canada. When you return from maternity or paternity leave you have to be returned to the same or a similar job. You can't fire someone or punt them to an entry level position when they come back.

Now, do some employers skirt the lines of what's legal? Yeah, probably. (it's complaint based so can be an uphill battle to prove) And do individuals returning from leave face other barriers? Yes. But that's a whole different conversation.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Torture

Yeah - maternity/paternity leave is job protected regardless of who you work for/where you work in Canada. When you return from maternity or paternity leave you have to be returned to the same or a similar job. You can't fire someone or punt them to an entry level position when they come back.

Now, do some employers skirt the lines of what's legal? Yeah, probably. (it's complaint based so can be an uphill battle to prove) And do individuals returning from leave face other barriers? Yes. But that's a whole different conversation.

Yeah. I worked at a big company where they did layoffs, and included in the layoff was everyone who had taken parental leave in the last 2 years. Tough to prove that was the reason, and severance conditional on not complaining..

[fotze2]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

Yeah. I worked at a big company where they did layoffs, and included in the layoff was everyone who had taken parental leave in the last 2 years. Tough to prove that was the reason, and severance conditional on not complaining..

Our company was 'compassionate' to let this drilling engineer go on her first day back from parental leave.

....at the same layoff, an other employee got tipped off about the layoffs and didn't show up to work for a week, then went to her doctor and went on sick leave (rehab) for a cocaine addiction and got a stellar upgraded package along with continued employment for another months.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Eric Vail

Teachers and their employers contribute to a pension fund. Teachers are eligible at 55 years old to retire (assuming they started at 23 or so) and start collecting their pension. This is not "taxpayer money" anymore than the RRSPs you have in the bank from money you have earned is "taxpayer money".

Retired teachers are only able to work 50%-60% of the year, or it begins to impact their pension.

There is a shortage of teachers across Canada. If retired teachers weren't filling in as substitute teachers or for short term contracts, we would have a big problem.

What is the outrage about? Some people clearly hate teachers.

Ah. No. Almost everything you said was wrong. No one cares how old they are, its about 'length of service.'

Have you seen the 'Substitute's List?'

Its enormous. Theres so much wrong in that post its practically satire. Some people 'have something against teachers?'

Apparently some people have 'something against facts.'

"Someone's got something against teachers!! Hurr Durr!! Look at me, I'm SMRT!!"

Like a Pakled.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Torture

Yeah - maternity/paternity leave is job protected regardless of who you work for/where you work in Canada. When you return from maternity or paternity leave you have to be returned to the same or a similar job. You can't fire someone or punt them to an entry level position when they come back.

Now, do some employers skirt the lines of what's legal? Yeah, probably. (it's complaint based so can be an uphill battle to prove) And do individuals returning from leave face other barriers? Yes. But that's a whole different conversation.

Yeah, I don't doubt that happens. I do doubt that it happens frequently with teachers though? (as far as skirting the legality)

[Torture]

Originally Posted by Slava

Yeah, I don't doubt that happens. I do doubt that it happens frequently with teachers though? (as far as skirting the legality)

Yeah I'd be surprised if that was the case too.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by Locke

Ah. No. Almost everything you said was wrong. No one cares how old they are, its about 'length of service.'

Have you seen the 'Substitute's List?'

Its enormous. Theres so much wrong in that post its practically satire. Some people 'have something against teachers?'

Apparently some people have 'something against facts.'

"Someone's got something against teachers!! Hurr Durr!! Look at me, I'm SMRT!!"

Like a Pakled.

We like teachers. They make us smart.

We like being smart.

And strong.

We drill for things to make us go.

[ah123]

Originally Posted by Slava

Yeah, I don't doubt that happens. I do doubt that it happens frequently with teachers though? (as far as skirting the legality)

Might have to do with the fact that teachers are unionized

[jar_e]

Originally Posted by fotze2

I've heard Police get pensions/retirement benefits that put all other government/private employees to shame. Not getting into the deserve it or not part.

Is that true?

The RCMP one is the gold standard for pensions in law enforcement in Canada. Not sure how that would compare to other federal employees. I’d presume the set limit would be a huge factor and higher earnings compared to the average. RCMP also draws some benefits from Veterans Affairs which opens some other accounts to draw from.

Municipal ones are ok (set terms, decent values) but little to no further retirement benefits (extended medical, etc).

[The Big Chill]

My wife has taken maternity leave from her teaching position twice in the last 5 years. If she went back to work after a year or less she would have her exact position back. If she took more then a year she would lose her specific position and end up getting placed at a different school (she went back right at one year both times).

The lack of substitutes has been true at times over the past few years though. There has been lots of days where there is no substitute available when a teacher is looking for one. I’m not sure if that is an ongoing problem or if that was just during Covid times with some people not wanting to work.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Locke

Because I dont like how the system works?

And everyone just catalogues it as 'you've got some weird thing about teachers man!'

No. I just understand a broken system when I see one.

Two of my daughters are teachers. I have nothing 'against' them, but that system isnt going to last long if its being sucked dry by the older members.

Since tax season is coming up and you’ll see your clients whom you allege are sucking the system dry, would you mind asking them whether the school boards are required to hire them back after they retire or if the boards make the choice to hire them again instead of a new teacher and let us know what they say?

I don’t know nor do I really care how you feel about teachers, but it certainly looks like you’re going out of your way to criticize them for a problem that they aren’t causing.

[Wormius]

Not sure why people are going off on parental leave. Unless something changed in the last 20 years, it’s pretty standard to get to take a leave when you have a baby and have your employer “guarantee” your spot when you’re ready to return. Doesn’t seem to be some teacher specific perk.

And why does it matter if a retired teacher works after starting to collect their pension? They’d be collecting it regardless.

[Red Potato Standing By]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Not sure why people are going off on parental leave. Unless something changed in the last 20 years, it’s pretty standard to get to take a leave when you have a baby and have your employer “guarantee” your spot when you’re ready to return. Doesn’t seem to be some teacher specific perk.

And why does it matter if a retired teacher works after starting to collect their pension? They’d be collecting it regardless.

Because people hate when others have more perks than them.( and on the most part would probably do the same thing if they were in the same situation)

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by Locke

Ah. No. Almost everything you said was wrong. No one cares how old they are, its about 'length of service.'

Have you seen the 'Substitute's List?'

Its enormous. Theres so much wrong in that post its practically satire. Some people 'have something against teachers?'

Except there is nothing wrong in his post, which is why you weren't able to refute any of what he said.

The length of the substitute list is meaningless when we have no idea how often or which jobs those subs take, many are on the list but rarely work, only will work at one school, few grades, certain times of the year etc.

I can't speak about Calgary outside of what I have heard from family there but it seems like they struggle to get subs daily from what I have heard. I know for a fact down here there is a massive shortage of subs.

I have talked to a retired teacher that had to be careful how much she subbed because it would eat into her pension if she went over those hours, so I doubt teachers are retiring, getting hired back full time and collecting their whole pensions, but I will leave room for the possibility of an exception which seems very unlikely.

[Spurs]

As for the parental leave, my wife had the same conditions I did in my private sector job as a teacher, one year leave and then we either went back or would lose our jobs. When she took longer with our youngest child she had to go through the same steps a brand new teacher would have, despite having 10 years experience. She had no guarantee of a job back, no guarantee to go back to her same school and certainly her same grade. Seems like what would happen in any job teacher or private company. In fact it was easier for me to go back to my same position at the private company I was at.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Wormius

And why does it matter if a retired teacher works after starting to collect their pension? They’d be collecting it regardless.

Locke said they were too many old teachers taking up teaching positions, in spite of the fact they technically retire earlier than the general Canadian population. Others have countered that there’s in fact a teacher shortage. Maybe the issue is that it can take years for new teachers to secure a full-time position at a school, in spite of the teacher shortage. I don’t know.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Spurs

As for the parental leave, my wife had the same conditions I did in my private sector job as a teacher, one year leave and then we either went back or would lose our jobs. When she took longer with our youngest child she had to go through the same steps a brand new teacher would have, despite having 10 years experience. She had no guarantee of a job back, no guarantee to go back to her same school and certainly her same grade. Seems like what would happen in any job teacher or private company.

Sounds no different from the private sector. Though I assume her years of experience were sustained for salary and pension purposes. So not really going back to being a new teacher.

[Eric Vail]

Originally Posted by Locke

Ah. No. Almost everything you said was wrong. No one cares how old they are, its about 'length of service.'

A teacher cannot collect their pension before age 55. That is a fact. Teachers who start at 22 or 23 years old have enough service by then, like I posted earlier.

Have you seen the 'Substitute's List?'

Yes I have. I also know that many schools are currently short subs virtually every day. Last I checked, there were over 30 jobs that were unfilled for the district I work for. They have a series of subs go in for these poor kids. I know a professor at the U of L and he says for the education career day the school districts were handing out contracts because they wanted to snap up teachers because if they waited and went the regular route, they wouldn't get enough. School districts in unattractive places to live are in really tough shape right now.

Its enormous. Theres so much wrong in that post its practically satire. Some people 'have something against teachers?'

Apparently some people have 'something against facts.'

"Someone's got something against teachers!! Hurr Durr!! Look at me, I'm SMRT!!"

Like a Pakled.

What I have learned here is not to trust anything Locke posts, because he knows little and presents himself as the expert.