MF YYC Politics - there, I mega did it

[Torture]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

Nvm, wrong thread.

Probably came in here to talk about city politics.

[InglewoodFan]

Committee voted 8-3 to sell the "park" land around Glenmore Landing, I think it goes to full council now. I watched the public comments today, so much NIMBY bellyaching.

My kid went and spoke, we live in the neighborhood and he's studying urban planning. Good experience for him, I'm proud he went and was one of the few voices in favour.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by InglewoodFan

Committee voted 8-3 to sell the "park" land around Glenmore Landing, I think it goes to full council now. I watched the public comments today, so much NIMBY bellyaching.

My kid went and spoke, we live in the neighborhood and he's studying urban planning. Good experience for him, I'm proud he went and was one of the few voices in favour.

Yeah of course it’s going through. The city got 2700 comments and 6 were in favour, but who cares what residents think?

I don’t agree with the “parkland” angle of this, because it’s disingenuous. But the concerns about infrastructure and congestion at that corner are completely true. And I don’t know if it was your son on the news last night saying it “ticks all the boxes for TOD”, but I laughed at that. There’s a bus station, for a route that goes basically nowhere. It’s laughably poor planning.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Slava

Yeah of course it’s going through. The city got 2700 comments and 6 were in favour, but who cares what residents think?

I don’t agree with the “parkland” angle of this, because it’s disingenuous. But the concerns about infrastructure and congestion at that corner are completely true. And I don’t know if it was your son on the news last night saying it “ticks all the boxes for TOD”, but I laughed at that. There’s a bus station, for a route that goes basically nowhere. It’s laughably poor planning.

It does make you wonder what exactly is the point of public consultation for projects that the city has already made up its mind about.

[fotze2]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

It does make you wonder what exactly is the point of public consultation for projects that the city has already made up its mind about.

I don't know why they waste the time and money doing it.

There was a couple door knocking, handing out flyers in my neighborhood about a development nearby at the old Viscount Bennet site. Adding 2,500 housing units (or whatever the term is), wanted me to sign a petition and submit comments. I told them I'm not wasting my time and they should not either. Of course I want less people around me but that's a me problem.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by fotze2

I don't know why they waste the time and money doing it.

There was a couple door knocking, handing out flyers in my neighborhood about a development nearby at the old Viscount Bennet site. Adding 2,500 housing units (or whatever the term is), wanted me to sign a petition and submit comments. I told them I'm not wasting my time and they should not either. Of course I want less people around me but that's a me problem.

Yeah, this is where I am with this project. I honestly would love to see Glenmore Landing redone, and I don't even care about the density if they had some plan to deal with all the people that was sensible. But, it's a done deal. I'm not going to speak to council and writing in and all that junk. My complaints are limited to here, which is basically slacktivism at it's best.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by fotze2

I don't know why they waste the time and money doing it.

There was a couple door knocking, handing out flyers in my neighborhood about a development nearby at the old Viscount Bennet site. Adding 2,500 housing units (or whatever the term is), wanted me to sign a petition and submit comments. I told them I'm not wasting my time and they should not either. Of course I want less people around me but that's a me problem.

I drove by Viscount Bennett the other day and wondered what was happening with that location.

My rugby club used to practice there in the 90's.

We ran that hill flat, or it felt like it at least.

[puffnstuff]

I already avoid the area around Glenmore Landing while driving, cant even imagine how much worse it will be adding all that much more traffic

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

It does make you wonder what exactly is the point of public consultation for projects that the city has already made up its mind about.

I imagine it is to solicit input from the public. The end result may be a foregone conclusion, but it’s better to have some say in how it gets there and what it looks like. If you’re expecting the consultation to take all of the “I don’t want this here at all!” opinions into account, nothing will be built.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

It does make you wonder what exactly is the point of public consultation for projects that the city has already made up its mind about.

To crowdsource very specific concerns that can only be identified by people with intensive lived experience in an area...if you're lucky enough to get a few sensible NIMBYs amongst the irrationally ranting NIMBYs, of course. But you can genuinely get a few quality design nuggets that might otherwise have been overlooked.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Wormius

I imagine it is to solicit input from the public. The end result may be a foregone conclusion, but it’s better to have some say in how it gets there and what it looks like. If you’re expecting the consultation to take all of the “I don’t want this here at all!” opinions into account, nothing will be built.

But what's the point of that? Like in this example, they asked for input and got it. There were about 2700 responses, 6 of which were in favour and they're rolling ahead anyway. Why bother asking for the opinions of people if you plan to just ignore them anyway?

[The Fisher Account]

Originally Posted by Slava

But what's the point of that? Like in this example, they asked for input and got it. There were about 2700 responses, 6 of which were in favour and they're rolling ahead anyway. Why bother asking for the opinions of people if you plan to just ignore them anyway?

Public engagement should be viewed as a means of surfacing different viewpoints to guide your decision-making processes, and not viewed as a means of voting in order for the data to make your decisions for you. That's why you elect a Councillor.

[WhiteTiger]

I've always thought of 'public consultation' in the exact same sense I do a 'non-binding plebiscite'. They are curious about the public opinion, but whatever that opinion is doesn't really matter to their overall plans.


Seems like a lot of folks mistake public consultation for a binding plebiscite.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by puffnstuff

I already avoid the area around Glenmore Landing while driving, cant even imagine how much worse it will be adding all that much more traffic

I’m sure most people who go to Glenmore Landing will just use the BRT.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by The Fisher Account

Public engagement should be viewed as a means of surfacing different viewpoints to guide your decision-making processes, and not viewed as a means of voting in order for the data to make your decisions for you. That's why you elect a Councillor.

Well our councilor is brutal, as we've discussed, so there's no help coming from her to represent the residents in the area.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Slava

Well our councilor is brutal, as we've discussed, so there's no help coming from her to represent the residents in the area.

Welcome to the joys of Ward 4!

[Mazrim]

Originally Posted by Slava

But what's the point of that? Like in this example, they asked for input and got it. There were about 2700 responses, 6 of which were in favour and they're rolling ahead anyway. Why bother asking for the opinions of people if you plan to just ignore them anyway?

I'll give you an example. Shawnee Slopes was a hotly contested development that went ahead despite the overwhelmingly negative comments received on it. However, it didn't look the same as the original plan. They didn't cancel it because of the comments, but they did change things to mitigate the issues. I can see the same thing happening here. This approval was about the sale of the land. I don't belive it was a referendum on the entire project layout.

Public consultation isn't a guarantee that every piece of feedback gets implemented, but it does guide next steps regardless of how little you feel you were heard.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Mazrim

I'll give you an example. Shawnee Slopes was a hotly contested development that went ahead despite the overwhelmingly negative comments received on it. However, it didn't look the same as the original plan. They didn't cancel it because of the comments, but they did change things to mitigate the issues. I can see the same thing happening here. This approval was about the sale of the land. I don't belive it was a referendum on the entire project layout.

Public consultation isn't a guarantee that every piece of feedback gets implemented, but it does guide next steps regardless of how little you feel you were heard.

Well we all know they're just playing games with this. They set the bar high and then "listening to feedback" reduced the tower heights. Great. But that's just treating this like a negotiation where you already know you're building this and just want to pretend you care what the residents think. It's not an honest discussion of whether this is a good place to have this development.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Slava

Well we all know they're just playing games with this. They set the bar high and then "listening to feedback" reduced the tower heights. Great. But that's just treating this like a negotiation where you already know you're building this and just want to pretend you care what the residents think. It's not an honest discussion of whether this is a good place to have this development.

How is it not honest? Did they preface it with the fact that their decision on whether to go forward at all would hinge on the public consultation being in favour?

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Slava

It's not an honest discussion of whether this is a good place to have this development.

On every honest discussion on this here or reddit or wherever the overwhelming majority think this is a great place to have this development. But those include posters from all parts of the city...