2023/2024 Trade Rumors and Speculation Thread

[iloveicedhockey]

I'm going full conspiracy, with the bottom line being something is close.

Dissentowner gives us some details and then gets asked to temper them with the second post about holding off to get us in a playoff position after being asked by their sources to reign it in a touch.

In tandem with that, the Flames also ask dolled up mouthpiece Francis to put it out there that Hanifin might actually sign to make it clear the Flames have options.

Alternatively, I may be reading into things a little too much.

[Redrum]

I think we can still work with the Huberdeau contract. Most teams have something like that, though maybe not quite as bad. Lindholm getting 1.5x the price and term he deserves on top of that would've cemented our cap pretty badly though. We'd be staring at the calendar more than watching hockey after that.

[shutout]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Ditto on any Colorado/Lindholm trade. Byram? Pure fantasy in my eyes. 2024 1st (in the same'ish range as above) + Ritchie or Gulyayev? Sign me up for that. .

The wildcard in any deal with the Avalanche is Johansen.
What would it be worth for them to open up $4M from their cap next year.
Flames are going to need players and for one year he would fit since he is going to want to perform to get another contract.

Maybe you can get Byram and Ritchie somehow in a deal.

[traptor]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Well there is no point in anyone discussing this with you because you can't get unstuck on the UFA part and don't seem to understand what a sign and trade or an extension negotiated means. Like I am not sure if you are just trolling here or what. Then the big defence of Spurs, is this his burner account? Like just weird

Another off topic insult... where's that forum police at now.


Because UFA is a huge part of the equation. Signs and trades don't happen. Top prospects typically dont get traded for UFAs.


I've asked numerous times for tangiable examples to back what you're arguing and I would happily change my opinion. You havnt provided any. You and another poster have just made insulting comments at me for disagreeing that we can get Holtz + 1st for hanifin.

Back your argument with facts not attacks.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by traptor

Another off topic insult... where's that forum police at now.


Because UFA is a huge part of the equation. Signs and trades don't happen. Top prospects typically dont get traded for UFAs.


I've asked numerous times for tangiable examples to back what you're arguing and I would happily change my opinion. You havnt provided any. You and another poster have just made insulting comments at me for disagreeing that we can get Holtz + 1st for hanifin.

Back your argument with facts not attacks.

I didn't attack you at all. Where did I attack you? I said everytime somebody brings up Hanifin's value as an extended player you go back to his value being UFA. The spurs comment is because you do suspiciously sound like him, same posting style. Whatever, you don't have to believe me.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Spurs

If you are playing in the ECHL is it likely that you care a lot about your post-secondary education?

I think that is a choice you make and that NCAA hockey likely wouldn't have been a good fit for you either.

The WHL, the place where you pursue your NHL dream and can get an education but if you don’t immediately make the NHL you must choose between an education or chasing your dream. Despite that being the actual reality I doubt that is how it is sold to the 14 year old child or the parents after the Bantam draft.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I think if it does get done it will be a while yet before Conny pulls the trigger. I think the team is going to try and put themselves in the playoff hunt and the longer you can hold into Hanifin the better. If course if NJ budges on Mercer then you pull the trigger but I don't expect they will. In the meantime you can still try and pressure them into it though while giving Kylington more time to see if he can make the jump back to the team. I am sure there are other teams calling on Hanifin as well and who knows, maybe a better offer comes from a desperate GM that doesn't want to miss out. If the 1st and Holtz is on the table but you would prefer a young C in the deal instead you can always circle back to that as we approach the deadline. The closer we get to the deadline the more pressure GM's feel and the more likely Conroy gets his ask.

If Hanifins camp is allowed to talk to jersey and they came to the conclusion that he would sign with them , wouldn’t they have to trade him to Jersey? I mean just say this happened in the next week for example. It’s not like Hanifin is going to sign an extension with any team he is traded to.

[All In Good Time]

Originally Posted by traptor

Another off topic insult... where's that forum police at now.


Because UFA is a huge part of the equation. Signs and trades don't happen. Top prospects typically dont get traded for UFAs.


I've asked numerous times for tangiable examples to back what you're arguing and I would happily change my opinion. You havnt provided any. You and another poster have just made insulting comments at me for disagreeing that we can get Holtz + 1st for hanifin.

Back your argument with facts not attacks.

Wait
What part of “sign and trades don’t happen” here am I missing?

Didn’t that happen with this franchise a couple of summers ago?

[traptor]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I didn't attack you at all. Where did I attack you? I said everytime somebody brings up Hanifin's value as an extended player you go back to his value being UFA. The spurs comment is because you do suspiciously sound like him, same posting style. Whatever, you don't have to believe me.

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Like I am not sure if you are just trolling here or what. Then the big defence of Spurs, is this his burner account? Like just weird

You and another poster going after me instead of tangiably defending your position on the topic.

This is a manipulative fallacy called Ad hominem where you attack the person and not the argument.

All I have done is defend why I disagree with your opinion and defend my own by providing examples/lack thereof examples.

[traptor]

Originally Posted by All In Good Time

Wait
What part of “sign and trades don’t happen” here am I missing?

Didn’t that happen with this franchise a couple of summers ago?

With an RFA. The first and only in NHL history. And we didn't get a top end prospect back.

[Harry Lime]

People get hung up thinking that it should be like a sign and trade in the NBA. In the NHL it's not like that. Permission is given to a team to talk to a players agent and an agreement is reached that will be ratified immediately after the trade, by the receiving team. So you are essentially trading for a signed player.

[All In Good Time]

Originally Posted by traptor

With an RFA. The first and only in NHL history. And we didn't get a top end prospect back.

Sorry
But
It was a sign and trade nonetheless and at the time it was perceived that we did very well. Top prospect or not. We got 2 proven NHL regulars. Could easily be argued that’s better than any prospect

[traptor]

Originally Posted by All In Good Time

Sorry
But
It was a sign and trade nonetheless and at the time it was perceived that we did very well. Top prospect or not. We got 2 proven NHL regulars. Could easily be argued that’s better than any prospect

I feel like contextually it's very different and if anything proves what I'm saying.

It's took x2 high profile pending UFAs + 1st + prospect to get one RFA.

RFA >>> UFA value all else equal.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by traptor

I feel like contextually it's very different and if anything proves what I'm saying.

It's took x2 high profile pending UFAs + 1st + prospect to get one RFA.

RFA >>> UFA value all else equal.

Mark Stone was a 2nd and high end prospect and he only wanted to go to Vegas.
Horvat last season was a pretty high pick in a strong draft and a good prospect

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by traptor

RFA >>> UFA value all else equal.

It shouldn't really matter if a sign and trade is involved. Tkachuk and Hanifin are both born in 97. But it just so happens Hanifin is the one with UFA status.

[All In Good Time]

Originally Posted by traptor

I feel like contextually it's very different and if anything proves what I'm saying.

It's took x2 high profile pending UFAs + 1st + prospect to get one RFA.

RFA >>> UFA value all else equal.

I don’t think it proves anything really
It’s all a matter of the player available, the demand for that player at the time and the willingness of the player to sign

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

The WHL, the place where you pursue your NHL dream and can get an education but if you don’t immediately make the NHL you must choose between an education or chasing your dream. Despite that being the actual reality I doubt that is how it is sold to the 14 year old child or the parents after the Bantam draft.

I think we vastly overrate the number of kids that chase their dream and would have gone to school but never do versus those that chase their dream in the ECHL and likely never would have gone to school anyways.

There certainly is an argument that the CHL scholarship program could work better but going the CHL route is far from a guaranteed future of flipping burgers when you’re done. If you have a real interest in a post secondary Education after hockey there is nothing that prevents that from happening and many advantages those kids have versus not going to the CHL.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by All In Good Time

I don’t think it proves anything really
It’s all a matter of the player available, the demand for that player at the time and the willingness of the player to sign

I also think the trade and sign counteracts itself.

1. The acquiring team is more comfortable meeting the high ask for the player knowing they won’t be losing the player to UFA but…
2. The acquiring team knows the player won’t be agreeing to a new deal with many, and if any other teams so they call the selling teams bluff.

Need another team in the mix with public permission to discuss an extension to make New Jersey feel uneasy.

[traptor]

Originally Posted by All In Good Time

It’s all a matter of the player available, the demand for that player at the time and the willingness of the player to sign

O forsure I agree with this, at the end of the day it comes down to what a teams willing to pay.

I'm just saying based on historical deals I don't think hanifin snags you a 1st+ Holtz.

Could it happen? Sure
Would I want it to happen? Definitely
Do I think its likely given recent history of the trade market? No.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by traptor

You and another poster going after me instead of tangiably defending your position on the topic.

This is a manipulative fallacy called Ad hominem where you attack the person and not the argument.

All I have done is defend why I disagree with your opinion and defend my own by providing examples/lack thereof examples.

You didn’t actually provide any examples, you asked others to provide examples but haven’t actually provided a single one that supports your position.

You also don’t seem to understand the UFA issue. Whether the Flames sign Hanifin and then trade him, or a team is allowed to talk to Hanifin’s agent and get confirmation that Hanifin would be willing to sign there at a price they’re willing to pay, both make his value equal to a player already signed to that contract (whatever it happens to be).So, “pending UFA” as a value detractor goes out the window. Doesn’t matter.

Can you provide a good example of a player like Hanifin moving and not getting back value similar to Holtz + a 1st? Because so far it looks like you’re either underrating Hanifin or overrating Holtz, and I’m genuinely curious what you’re basing this on.