2023/2024 Trade Rumors and Speculation Thread

[Jiri Hrdina]

The desire to re-build wasn't isolated to a few posters that are now pretending like they were smarter than everyone else. There was pretty wide belief that the team SHOULD re-build. However, there was also recognition that it was not likely to happen including due to lack of support from ownership.

So a lot of folks evaluated the trade with that in mind, instead of ignoring those realities completely.

It's easy to say a team should re-build if you choose to completely ignore the role that ownership plays in allowing for that.

[SuperMatt18]

There were lots of people that wanted a new direction when Gaudreau/Tkachuk left - honestly there was a clear path forward on the table at the time to try to get younger and retool around the younger pieces. Don't think it's hindsight to say that now, lots of people on this site were saying it at the time.

But I also get why the Ownership and Management group didn't want to throw in the towel. They had a Jack Adams winning coach, a Vezina nominated goalie, and on paper were replacing their 115 point forward with another 115 point forward, and were replacing Tkachuk with the Combination of Weegar/Kadri.

What people didn't see was the goaltending imploding, Huberdeau's production cratering, Kylington not playing a game for 18 months, and the overall mood around the organization and coach turning completely toxic.

Both paths were viable options at the time the decision was made, and really if you're ownership the re-build path at the time would look way more risky than the path they took. Unfortunately though the path the Flames took didn't work out at all, and now they are likely going to have to re-build anyways but are behind the curve due to some contracts they have now.

[The Cobra]

Who thought the Canucks were about to take a giant step forward this year.

Everyone, including Canuck fans though that getting Hronek from the Wings for a first and second round pick in a very deep draft was insane.

But the margins are very slim in the NHL these days, the best teams are not close to the best teams of yesteryear, due to the flat cap, and the cap generally.

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

The desire to re-build wasn't isolated to a few posters that are now pretending like they were smarter than everyone else. There was pretty wide belief that the team SHOULD re-build. However, there was also recognition that it was not likely to happen including due to lack of support from ownership.

So a lot of folks evaluated the trade with that in mind, instead of ignoring those realities completely.

It's easy to say a team should re-build if you choose to completely ignore the role that ownership plays in allowing for that.

Who is pretending they are smarter than everyone else?

I said the opposite that it wasn't about being smarter just willing to see what was clear.

[zuluking]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

I was going to drop into the Huberdeau thread to suggest that we make it the new Trades and Speculation thread, but they are actually talking about Huberdeau in there. I became confused and disoriented, and left.

No confusion. Just another thread that has been spurred into oblivion. Ignore feature failing miserably...

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

The desire to re-build wasn't isolated to a few posters that are now pretending like they were smarter than everyone else. There was pretty wide belief that the team SHOULD re-build. However, there was also recognition that it was not likely to happen including due to lack of support from ownership.

So a lot of folks evaluated the trade with that in mind, instead of ignoring those realities completely.

It's easy to say a team should re-build if you choose to completely ignore the role that ownership plays in allowing for that.

It's interesting as I mentioned something in a similar vein this morning in the attendance numbers thread.

Ownership has always had this overwhelming opinion that on ice quality = butts in the seats, and to throw a poor team out there is tantamount to suicide. But the attendance numbers in the cap era do not seem to match at all to team quality. So that assumption is likely antiquated and wrong. Instead, superstars (largely only available in the top few picks of any draft) seem to drive attendance, but ultimately the base attendance depends on how much available income is left and ticket price index. In short, it is likely a good play in the current era to try and acquire a superstar, and once you have one to pay basically anything to ensure they stay. The best way to acquire a superstar is to suck REALLY bad for 3 ish seasons.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Man the Spurs and Spurs'd another thread.

This is about trade rumors. It is another revisit the Tkachuk trade and Huberdeau sucks 2.0 thread.

Drags everyone into back and forth with his constant made up facts and lies.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

It's interesting as I mentioned something in a similar vein this morning in the attendance numbers thread.

Ownership has always had this overwhelming opinion that on ice quality = butts in the seats, and to throw a poor team out there is tantamount to suicide. But the attendance numbers in the cap era do not seem to match at all to team quality. So that assumption is likely antiquated and wrong. Instead, superstars (largely only available in the top few picks of any draft) seem to drive attendance, but ultimately the base attendance depends on how much available income is left and ticket price index. In short, it is likely a good play in the current era to try and acquire a superstar, and once you have one to pay basically anything to ensure they stay. The best way to acquire a superstar is to suck REALLY bad for 3 ish seasons.

I don't disagree entirely with this but I'm not sure it is about maintaining attendance.

Rather, I think that ownership has simply believed that you shouldn't have to execute a long re-build to have a contender. I think it's stubbornness more than anything. Perhaps with a business man who is used to getting what he wants.

I don't know though. A lot of guesswork on my part.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Spurs

Who is pretending they are smarter than everyone else?

I said the opposite that it wasn't about being smarter just willing to see what was clear.

People have provided more than enough rebuttal on why things weren't clear.

Drop it.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

It's interesting as I mentioned something in a similar vein this morning in the attendance numbers thread.

Ownership has always had this overwhelming opinion that on ice quality = butts in the seats, and to throw a poor team out there is tantamount to suicide. But the attendance numbers in the cap era do not seem to match at all to team quality. So that assumption is likely antiquated and wrong. Instead, superstars (largely only available in the top few picks of any draft) seem to drive attendance, but ultimately the base attendance depends on how much available income is left and ticket price index. In short, it is likely a good play in the current era to try and acquire a superstar, and once you have one to pay basically anything to ensure they stay. The best way to acquire a superstar is to suck REALLY bad for 3 ish seasons.

The irony of this of course is that Huberdeau was a superstar who was taken with a top 3 pick, finished top 7 in NHL scoring over the course of a 5 season span, and the Flames paid anything to ensure he'd stay.

But really the point you're trying to make is still relevant. You need to draft your own superstars (or acquire them before they turn 26) because as both Calgary and Columbus are seeing right now...signing a guy who was a superstar or trading for a superstar is not the same thing...especially once they are over 30 years old.

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by Bingo

People have provided more than enough rebuttal on why things weren't clear.

Drop it.

Nobody has provided any actual rebuttal on why it wasn't clear at all.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Spurs

How many play-off wins did they have in that time frame? Good teams win in the play-offs the Flames did not. It is a stretch to say they were among the best teams.



The Caps and Pens were full of the best players in the world and had success for multiple seasons. Anyone who were surprised by them weren't paying attention. Vegas had multiple years of play-off success before winning.

The Blues are the one unicorn team, but are we going to expect unicorns to happen often or realize that was likely a one off fluke that is not likely to be re-created?



I don't think they are, we can see the results of successful teams and for the vast majority of them they have sustained success. The Flames did not have that.



If you consider that one of the best seasons ever that shows the problem, it was not a very successful season at all. And I think it is fair for fans to criticize the owners for making bad decisions. They should judge the team not going forward not based on the emotions of a supposedly successful season the year before, and more than that they should allow people who actually have knowledge/experience in the industry and let them decide not meddle yourself.

Can’t have it both ways.

Those seasons the Flames had were similar to several seasons the pens and caps had I would argue.

Had Gaudreau and Tkachuck stayed, who to say the Flames aren’t what you’re saying is a good team.

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Man the Spurs and Spurs'd another thread.

This is about trade rumors. It is another revisit the Tkachuk trade and Huberdeau sucks 2.0 thread.

Drags everyone into back and forth with his constant made up facts and lies.

LOL reading is hard for you I guess. I didn't bring this up at all.

But nobody is preventing you from talking about all those trade rumours that are out there right now. It is totally up to you what you do and don't talk about.

[traptor]

Many fans wanted a rebuild after losing Chucky and Gaudreau. Not sure how this is disputable.

Some were also not crazy about the chucky deal and huburdeau signing. Sure, on the surface we were giving up 100 pt player for 100 lt player++. But the reality is we gave up a superstar RFA. Thee were getting prime chuckt years and we were getting twilight overpaid years.
It also meant we weren't rebuilding.

The monahan trade and Kadri signing was just more salt in the wound.

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Can’t have it both ways.

Those seasons the Flames had were similar to several seasons the pens and caps had I would argue.

Had Gaudreau and Tkachuck stayed, who to say the Flames aren’t what you’re saying is a good team.

I am not having it both ways, the Flames did not have near the success the Pens and Captials had, didn't have near the talent of those teams either.

You can argue what you like but you would be 100% wrong to try and do so.

But Gaudreau and Tkachuk didn't stay that is the main point. Even if they did no reason to think this team was doing anything anyways.

[Poe969]

Poll question: would you trade Markstrom to the devils for a first and 2 2nd round picks?

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Bingo

It wasn't clear as day.

Teams that win a division and a playoff series don't show they're not close to good enough to compete.

Right, but the team wouldn’t have done that without Gaudreau and Tkachuk scoring 200 points.

They tried a heart transplant , and people die after heart transplants all the time.

Originally Posted by Poe969

Poll question: would you trade Markstrom to the devils for a first and 2 2nd round picks?

Of course.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Poe969

Poll question: would you trade Markstrom to the devils for a first and 2 2nd round picks?

In a heartbeat.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by Poe969

Poll question: would you trade Markstrom to the devils for a first and 2 2nd round picks?

I would for any one of the three let alone all of them, but people probably could have guessed that.

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by Poe969

Poll question: would you trade Markstrom to the devils for a first and 2 2nd round picks?

That poll would be the first in CP history to be 100% yes