Israel declares war on Hamas

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Again, more drivel, instead of saying nothing answer this, would you like to see Qatar and others arrest and turn over the Hamas leadership to end this nightmare or not?

Bit of a silly question but I'll answer it anyways.
Yes.

My silly question turn.
If Israel knows where they are in Qatar why don't they just drop a 2000 pounder on them like they'd do if it was Lebanon?

[Barnet Flame]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

Bagor on Dec 30th: How dare anyone suggest the % of children killed could be under 50%!

Bagor on Dec 31st: Here's a graphic showing children represent 39% of the dead.

Is 11,000 dead children too little, too much, or just right?

[Captain Otto]

Originally Posted by Bagor

Not commit Genocide?

Answer the question.

I see lot's of back and forth, but I really don't see anyone offering any sort of solution.

So the question still stands - How should Israel react to a group who, if they had the capability would wipe Jews from the face of the earth?

[PepsiFree]

“I haven’t seen any solutions” only works if you believe that the argument is against eliminating Hamas or responding with force and not what it actually is: against the specific approach being taken leading to an extremely high civilian death toll and the disregard for human life. Israel is not just on the path to eliminating Hamas (if that’s a goal they can even accomplish remains to be seen), they’re in the process of killing tens of thousands of civilians and putting hundreds of thousands more in the position of being without basic needs in the process of pushing Palestinians out of Gaza by making it completely inhabitable.

To see no solution beyond the one that Israel has chosen is completely ignorant of both word history and human decency, especially to the point where you don’t see a solution yourself and demand anyone critical of Israel’s approach provide you with a comprehensive solution before you even consider anything they do worth criticizing.

It’s not on anyone to provide you with an alternative to massive civilian casualties and 2000lbs bombs flattening entire neighborhoods and damaging hospitals, schools, and other public institutions beyond repair. Any decent person would find that unacceptable and not require someone else to walk them through another way before feeing so.

[CaptainCrunch]

We know that Hamas won't surrender, nor will Qatar arrest the leaders of Hamas and turn them over to the Israeli's or the international courts, because these people have billions of dollars and have spread it out generously for their protection.



Its unlikely that Hamas will stake their arms and turn over the government of Gaza to a coalition of Arab states.



Its also a for sure that Hamas will break any ceasefire that's imposed.



Unless there's a agreement that ensures no more attacks of Israel from Gaza along with a return of all of the hostages and a new government in Gaza that this is going to be an ongoing conflict for a long time.



Unless Hamas is gone, or there's an occupying third party force like the UN or NATO or even something like a coalition of Middle Eastern Countries (who won't do it because it invites terrorist strikes in their own countries), I doubt there's a reasonable end game here that generates no more then a few weeks of ceasefire.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Captain Otto

Answer the question.

I see lot's of back and forth, but I really don't see anyone offering any sort of solution.

So the question still stands - How should Israel react to a group who, if they had the capability would wipe Jews from the face of the earth?

Define "a group". You mean Hamas? The civilians of Gaza? Or, are you another one that considers them one and the same?

I answered the question.
You didn't like the answer. I wish I could say it makes you uncomfortable but probably not.

I repeat. By not commiting genocide. By not demonstrating ethnic cleansing.

It's not necessary to drop 2,000 pound bombs on densely populated areas or refugee camps.
It's not necessary to snipe at civilians.
It's not necessary to execute civilians waving white flags.
It's not necessary to deprive hospitals of supplies causing newborn mortality.
It's not necessary to deprive a population of food and water.
It's not necessary to drop blow up mosques after they have been cleared and post tik toks of soldiers taking dumps in the them.

Maybe show a little self awareness and restraint and don't present themselves to the world as a bunch of nut jobs.

You are currently in the process of starving a whole civilian population in front of the whole world and you lack the self awareness by asking what they should do differently?

[Doctorfever]

Is there any chance at all the Palestinians try to rise up against Hamas? Obviously it would be impossible for them to overtake Hamas, but they would certainly have support of other groups soon after trying.

And no, I am not putting the responsibility of stopping this war on the civilians.

There is no easy path to stopping this war when neither side will give in, maybe some of the things would work that CC has posted.

Edit: I think it goes without saying that Hamas could end this conflict though, but we all know they won’t do that.

[PepsiFree]

Palestinians can barely survive at this point. They’re living in a warzone with the leaders of both forces in other countries. The potential of any uprising being effective, if it were even possible in the first place, is zero.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Captain Otto

Answer the question.

Now your turn.

Do you feel that Israel's current approach of mass destruction, starvation and genocide is appropriate?
If so. Why?

Answer the question.

[CliffFletcher]

If there’s always an alternative to invasion and occupation, it makes you wonder why the Allies carried out the enormously costly war against the fascists of Europe. So much blood and treasure lost, millions of innocent civilians killed. They should have just tried harder to find a way to rid Europe of its fascist regimes that didn’t involve bombing and invasion. I have no idea how they would have done it. But with so many smart people involved, surely they could have come up with something besides war.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

If there’s always an alternative to invasion and occupation, it makes you wonder why the Allies carried out the enormously costly war against the fascists of Europe. So much blood and treasure lost, millions of innocent civilians killed. They should have just tried harder to find a way to rid Europe of its fascist regimes that didn’t involve bombing and invasion. I have no idea how they would have done it. But with so many smart people involved, surely they could have come up with something besides war.

Nobody is suggesting “don’t do war,” so that’s a pretty nonsensical straw man. Not every war is equal and the existence of war doesn’t negate the validity of criticism of tactics and costs of the war in question. You’ve made extremely clear you wish to be seen as smarter than this lazy false equivalency suggests.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

If there’s always an alternative to invasion and occupation, it makes you wonder why the Allies carried out the enormously costly war against the fascists of Europe. So much blood and treasure lost, millions of innocent civilians killed. They should have just tried harder to find a way to rid Europe of its fascist regimes that didn’t involve bombing and invasion. I have no idea how they would have done it. But with so many smart people involved, surely they could have come up with something besides war.

Silly comparison. You realize that? Yes?

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by Barnet Flame

Is 11,000 dead children too little, too much, or just right?

obviously way too much but the point raised on the last page was whether the numbers given by Hamas could be inflating the % of children for the international support it generates.
We also know Hamas has a lot of soldiers who are teenagers (a tragedy in it's own right) and are counted as children in these numbers.

Is it ok to condemn Israel's aggression here, state that way too many civilians are being killed, but also question numbers coming from Hamas?

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

Is it ok to condemn Israel's aggression here, state that way too many civilians are being killed, but also question numbers coming from Hamas?

Yes of course it is

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Bagor

My silly question turn.
If Israel knows where they are in Qatar why don't they just drop a 2000 pounder on them like they'd do if it was Lebanon?

They should, maybe not a bunker buster as they're probably not hiding in tunnels like in Gaza but they're drones can carry over 2500lbs of missiles and bombs, enough to level a palace.

[Captain Otto]

Originally Posted by Bagor

Now your turn.

Do you feel that Israel's current approach of mass destruction, starvation and genocide is appropriate?
If so. Why?

Answer the question.

Edit - Actually NVM. Posting here is futile.

No wonder so many people just read and never participate.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

They should, maybe not a bunker buster as they're probably not hiding in tunnels like in Gaza but they're drones can carry over 2500lbs of missiles and bombs, enough to level a palace.

The Hamas leadership are welcomed guests of the government of Qatar, multi billions of dollars in net worth will assure their sanctuary.


Israel can't start dropping bombs in Qatar without pissing off Egypt or Saudi Arabia.



The Hamas leaders live in high rise apartments populated by the wealthy, or in rich neighborhoods.



In theory there has to be a bit of fear that the Hamas leaders have a dead man order that if they're killed by the Israeli's that the hostages die horribly, and other bad stuff happens.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Captain Otto

Edit - Actually NVM. Posting here is futile.

No wonder so many people just read and never participate.

Ok. All the best?

[Captain Otto]

Originally Posted by Bagor

Ok. All the best?

Absolutely! As long as I agree with you.

Happy New Year!

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Captain Otto

Absolutely! As long as I agree with you.

Happy New Year!

I have zero idea why you're having a tantrum but happy new year to you also.