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Old 12-25-2023, 10:38 AM   #4361
Pointman
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Originally Posted by Bagor View Post
There is zero evidence that the hospital was being used as a command post as claimed.
So you concede that Hamas used hospital for their terrorist purposes? You just claim that it wasn't used as command post, but rather in some other way?

Last edited by Pointman; 12-25-2023 at 10:43 AM.
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Old 12-25-2023, 10:42 AM   #4362
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The amount of ‘pro Hamas’ accusations made against people who simply want the bombardment of an entire population resulting in the deaths of thousands of innocents, to stop, is sickening.

Hamas are a depraved and disgusting organisation as evidenced most recently in October.

The innocent Palestinian victims of this indiscriminate ongoing bombardment are not Hamas. They are victims of Hamas, the failure of the Arabic world and a brutal Israeli government hellbent on saving their own skins for their own failures.

The Israeli government and their apologists should not be allowed to continue labeliing as ‘pro Hamas and/or anti-Semite, those that demand this indiscriminate bombardment of an entire population stop in the name of humanity.
Stopping the bombing will lead to nothing but more deaths of innocent civilians. Hamas said openly, that they will repeat October 7th every time they will get the chance. There's no way to peace but eradicate them. And there's no way to eradicate them but a full scale war. They can not be removed by some surgical special forces mission.
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Old 12-25-2023, 10:54 AM   #4363
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It's kind of sad when people who are theoretically smart and do know their history better than this bend themselves in pretzels to support mass violence towards a mostly civilian population.

You know as well as I do that your original theory was nonsense and doesn't actually hold up. It's why I really just bother to show up in this thread to say that, but there's no real point in "debating" you.

The only thing left is to keep pointing out that this is nonsense, so that you don't accidentally think you "made a point".

No you didn't. You spewed nonsense because you don't want to give up an untenable position.
Thing is, Israeli - Palestinians conflict, although old, has become merely a proxy war between USA and Iran. Houthis have jumped in with some pirating in Red Sea. And they are generally disturbing sea trade, not just destroying Israeli ships, or even ships that are heading for Israel. Houthis have nothing to do with Palestine. They are just another Iranian proxy that Iran has activated to fight The West.

Last edited by Pointman; 12-25-2023 at 10:59 AM.
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Old 12-25-2023, 11:02 AM   #4364
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This article will give you a better idea. It is the USA-Iran war basically. The history of Palestine, religion, Zionism, anti-Semitism have nothing to do with it



The Houthis have declared themselves part of an "axis of resistance" of Iran-affiliated groups, which works in opposition to Israel, the US, and the wider West

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67607862
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Old 12-25-2023, 11:27 AM   #4365
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Stopping the bombing will lead to nothing but more deaths of innocent civilians. Hamas said openly, that they will repeat October 7th every time they will get the chance. There's no way to peace but eradicate them. And there's no way to eradicate them but a full scale war. They can not be removed by some surgical special forces mission.
Stopping bombing everything and everyone where ever they are, even the places the bombers send them to will certainly save lives. If you think taking action that indiscriminately destroys everyone and everything amongst an entire populous, is a solution, you are no better than the evil you claim you’re trying to eradicate.
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Old 12-25-2023, 11:59 AM   #4366
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Originally Posted by Barnet Flame View Post
Stopping bombing everything and everyone where ever they are, even the places the bombers send them to will certainly save lives. If you think taking action that indiscriminately destroys everyone and everything amongst an entire populous, is a solution, you are no better than the evil you claim you’re trying to eradicate.
Isn’t that essentially letting Hamas win? Their strategy is a bad one for the Palestinians they hide amongst, but it is their chosen strategy. To just let them continue to rearm and attack again is playing into the terrorists hand.

Don’t get me wrong, the civilian deaths are terrible, it is the war that Hamas wanted.
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Old 12-25-2023, 12:17 PM   #4367
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Originally Posted by Pointman View Post
So you concede that Hamas used hospital for their terrorist purposes? You just claim that it wasn't used as command post, but rather in some other way?
What a dishonest post. Can you point me to to where I claimed that hospitals were being used "in some other way"?

Stay on point.
The justification for the attack on the hospital and the slaughter of newborn babies and other was that it was a major Hamas control centre.
That has shown to be false.
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Old 12-25-2023, 01:31 PM   #4368
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Isn’t that essentially letting Hamas win? Their strategy is a bad one for the Palestinians they hide amongst, but it is their chosen strategy. To just let them continue to rearm and attack again is playing into the terrorists hand.

Don’t get me wrong, the civilian deaths are terrible, it is the war that Hamas wanted.
Ceasing the constant indiscriminate bombing of innocents isn’t giving victory to Hamas. Continuing with the current approach is probably only designed to satisfy the bloodlust of the extremists propping up the Israeli government and deflect from the tactical errors of past administrations.

I have no issue with Israel attacking Hamas - none at all. The methodology currently in use is barbaric and will likely be ineffective.
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Old 12-25-2023, 02:35 PM   #4369
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It's bad enough those poor bastards are being bombed, it's Christmas, there's nothing we can do to stop what is happening there but today of all days let it go, argue tomorrow

Today I hope all of you are all having a nice day, I wish All of you, regardless of faith or opinion a happy Christmas, and we can all pray for peace
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Old 12-25-2023, 03:13 PM   #4370
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Originally Posted by Barnet Flame View Post
Ceasing the constant indiscriminate bombing of innocents isn’t giving victory to Hamas. Continuing with the current approach is probably only designed to satisfy the bloodlust of the extremists propping up the Israeli government and deflect from the tactical errors of past administrations.

I have no issue with Israel attacking Hamas - none at all. The methodology currently in use is barbaric and will likely be ineffective.
Hamas soldiers are sent to die as martyrs by hiding among the innocents, Hamas has admitted this, if you know a way to target only Hamas I'm sure the IDF would make you a hero.

Look, nobody wants innocent people killed except Hamas, they are complete non-human savages bent on ending Israel.

Israel has two choices.

1) End the fight, allow Hamas to re-arm with possibly more dangerous weapons.
2) Destroy Hamas and every supporter of Hamas that wants Israel gone.

I can see this fight eventually going straight to Iran and it won't end well for the crazy religious leadership of that country.
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Old 12-25-2023, 03:41 PM   #4371
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Hamas soldiers are sent to die as martyrs by hiding among the innocents, Hamas has admitted this, if you know a way to target only Hamas I'm sure the IDF would make you a hero.

Look, nobody wants innocent people killed except Hamas, they are complete non-human savages bent on ending Israel.
One of the things I find funny about this debate is how Hamas supporters in the West make denials about their tactics that Hamas doesn't even make. They openly admit to using civilians as shields and hospitals as cover. Yet some people deny it on their behalf for some reason.

That is not to say that every single instance of civilian death or every hospital hit is a result of those tactics. In the fog of war, it is impossible for anyone here to know which civilians and targets were a result of Hamas, which were acceptable collateral damage, and which were a result of negligence or over zealousness. I am sure there are probably examples of all three in this war.

I really hope the war ends soon. There is no denying that innocent civilians are suffering who don't deserve to. The onus is really on Hamas to end this though. They have the power to.
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Old 12-25-2023, 04:05 PM   #4372
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Originally Posted by afc wimbledon View Post
It's bad enough those poor bastards are being bombed, it's Christmas, there's nothing we can do to stop what is happening there but today of all days let it go, argue tomorrow

Today I hope all of you are all having a nice day, I wish All of you, regardless of faith or opinion a happy Christmas, and we can all pray for peace
Well said.

There’s a saying in Judaism, next year in Jerusalem. It’s not really political, it’s more of a prayer for peace for everyone.

Here’s hoping that next Christmas brings peace to the region where everyone, Israeli, Palestinian and Arab of all religions are able to live in peace and security and that their leaders want only those things for their people - peace, security, prosperity and dignity.

A happy Christmas to all.
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Old 12-25-2023, 05:12 PM   #4373
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Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus View Post
Hamas soldiers are sent to die as martyrs by hiding among the innocents, Hamas has admitted this, if you know a way to target only Hamas I'm sure the IDF would make you a hero.

Look, nobody wants innocent people killed except Hamas, they are complete non-human savages bent on ending Israel.

Israel has two choices.

1) End the fight, allow Hamas to re-arm with possibly more dangerous weapons.
2) Destroy Hamas and every supporter of Hamas that wants Israel gone.

I can see this fight eventually going straight to Iran and it won't end well for the crazy religious leadership of that country.
It is this binary thinking that is used to justify the ongoing barbarity of the current strategy.

There are a multitude of choices. It is not simply a choice between blowing the #### out of an entire population or walking away and doing nothing.
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Old 12-25-2023, 05:40 PM   #4374
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There are reports that Israel has decided to expand their campaign of terror beyond Gaza and have killed the Iranian General in Damascus today. No doubt that America's continued support of Israel's bombing of refugee camps and killing of ordinary Palestinians had some influence on Israel's decision that doing this right now was the right time. Iran's military is no joke and is much different from Hamas. I gotta think this will really escalate things.
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Old 12-25-2023, 06:09 PM   #4375
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Originally Posted by afc wimbledon View Post
It's bad enough those poor bastards are being bombed, it's Christmas, there's nothing we can do to stop what is happening there but today of all days let it go, argue tomorrow

Today I hope all of you are all having a nice day, I wish All of you, regardless of faith or opinion a happy Christmas, and we can all pray for peace
It would be nice if the Palestinians could enjoy spending Christmas together without fear of attack or bombing but unfortunately it has been one of the worst times for Israeli attacks.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/israel...ghts-1.7069323
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Old 12-25-2023, 07:33 PM   #4376
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It would be nice if the Palestinians could enjoy spending Christmas together without fear of attack or bombing but unfortunately it has been one of the worst times for Israeli attacks.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/israel...ghts-1.7069323
But the important thing is that we don't talk about it on Christmas, that's icky.
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Old 12-25-2023, 08:45 PM   #4377
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Yeah. It's Christmas. Whatever you do don't mention the genocide. Don't mention the ongoing slaughter and bombing of evacuation zones.

Quote:
More than 100 people were killed in Israeli airstrikes late on Sunday in the centre of the besieged Palestinian territory, including at least 70 in bombings that hit a residential block in the Maghazi refugee camp near Deir al-Balah, health officials in Gaza said.

Deir al-Balah was also hit overnight despite previously being identified by the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) as an “evacuation zone” for Palestinians fleeing the fighting
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...aeli-offensive
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Old 12-25-2023, 09:05 PM   #4378
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Originally Posted by Barnet Flame View Post
It is this binary thinking that is used to justify the ongoing barbarity of the current strategy.

There are a multitude of choices. It is not simply a choice between blowing the #### out of an entire population or walking away and doing nothing.
Genuinely curious what you think Israel should do to eliminate Hamas and how they should go about doing it.

Or do you think that a ceasefire is better, and just leave Hamas alone?
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Old 12-25-2023, 09:26 PM   #4379
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Curious amount of posts asking why the Jews and Muslims don't settle down the fighting for Christmas.
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Old 12-25-2023, 09:28 PM   #4380
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Genuinely curious what you think Israel should do to eliminate Hamas and how they should go about doing it.
Yeah, I eagerly await his plan as well.
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