What to do with Huberdeau?

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Yes, the team would be in a better spot without Huberdeau but he isn’t hindering a rebuild. There isn’t a way to get out from under it now.

These two statements don't reconcile. If there is no way to get out from under it, then by definition, that hinders a rebuild. A rebuild necessitates moving parts out that aren't working and weaponizing cap space. It also hinders the team to be competitive because you need to use cap space efficiently to be be competitive, and Huberdeau's contract is probably the best example of inefficient use of cap space in the entire league.

[ForeverFlameFan]

He’s stopping us from signing the Lucic/Neal/Brouwer-level contracts.

That’s all I’ve got. Point production can come later if it ever does, when we are good.

It’s safe to say he is NOT a franchise player, but can very well be a better player when we have a better supporting cast, in my opinion. Not producing with Backlund is a bit concerning though.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

These two statements don't reconcile. If there is no way to get out from under it, then by definition, that hinders a rebuild. A rebuild necessitates moving parts out that aren't working and weaponizing cap space. It also hinders the team to be competitive because you need to use cap space efficiently to be be competitive, and Huberdeau's contract is probably the best example of inefficient use of cap space in the entire league.

No, if the Flames were even somewhat competitive then the Flames would be going all in to keep the party going. Huberdeau is dragging them into a rebuild and they will have more than enough cap space to weaponize starting this deadline

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Something can not be a help without being a hindrance. If you don't help out the Food Bank, are you a hindrance to it?

Cap space =/= extra picks unless there's someone so desperate to offload a bad contract they will give up picks to do so. Huberdeau obviously has a terrible contract for his performance and age but I don't see the Flames offering picks or other assets to get rid of it. There just aren't too many deals like that.

Doesn't this happen multiple times a season?

I see my confusion now. I am under no illusion the Flames are getting rid of Huberdeau's contract but yes, having that contract hinders the rebuild by having less cap space to work with. I'm not talking about hindering the decision of whether or not to rebuild but hindering the process of the rebuild. In my mind, the decision to rebuild is not based solely on his contract and his results. Other deficiencies in this team also play into the decision.

[Hockey_Ninja]

Spoilered for swearing

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[Sec214]

Originally Posted by Hockey_Ninja

Spoilered for swearing

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Send this to his agent please.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Cap space =/= extra picks unless there's someone so desperate to offload a bad contract they will give up picks to do so. Huberdeau obviously has a terrible contract for his performance and age but I don't see the Flames offering picks or other assets to get rid of it. There just aren't too many deals like that.

I wonder how Arizona got TWENTY picks in the top three rounds for the next three years. They must have had a lot of talented players to trade. Or there actually are a lot of deals like that.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by butterfly

I wonder how Arizona got TWENTY picks in the top three rounds for the next three years. They must have had a lot of talented players to trade. Or there actually are a lot of deals like that.

The Flames will have 20 million dollars of cap space next year. They can easily replicate what the Coyotes did if the demand is there from other teams.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by butterfly

I wonder how Arizona got TWENTY picks in the top three rounds for the next three years. They must have had a lot of talented players to trade. Or there actually are a lot of deals like that.

Most of the deals like that were, in fact, deals that Arizona made. They were the only team in such dire financial straits that they had to worry about meeting the cap floor. So they sold off every older player that anyone would take, and took on cap dumps from other teams where the player's remaining salary was substantially less than his cap hit. That allowed them to stay above the floor without actually spending that much money.

The price of all this is that they completely ruined their team and drove away what few fans they had. Is that a tradeoff you think the Flames should accept?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by butterfly

I wonder how Arizona got TWENTY picks in the top three rounds for the next three years. They must have had a lot of talented players to trade. Or there actually are a lot of deals like that.

So? The Flames will have cap space to do those deals too. If they want to take on the contracts. How much do Hanifin/Lindholm/Tanev/Dube total?


But not that many of those deals were "selling cap space" deals. Kane, Ghostisbiere. Maybe Stralman.

I mean, they got some really late picks for Voracek and Weber. But those aren't in your category.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Most of the deals like that were, in fact, deals that Arizona made. They were the only team in such dire financial straits that they had to worry about meeting the cap floor. So they sold off every older player that anyone would take, and took on cap dumps from other teams where the player's remaining salary was substantially less than his cap hit. That allowed them to stay above the floor without actually spending that much money.

The price of all this is that they completely ruined their team and drove away what few fans they had. Is that a tradeoff you think the Flames should accept?

I don’t think they ruined their team. They have 20 picks coming up and might even make the playoffs already. They have no bad contracts.

Their problems are that they have no arena and very few fans. So they were pretty smart to do what they did in my opinion. Calgary doesn’t have those problems.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by butterfly

I wonder how Arizona got TWENTY picks in the top three rounds for the next three years. They must have had a lot of talented players to trade. Or there actually are a lot of deals like that.

That’s a terrible analogy for numerous reasons that are well known. They’re down to their last breathe.


Is there any other relevant examples you can point to other than the complete and total outlier that has been lost in the woods for the past quarter century or so?

[PepsiFree]

Most trades where teams utilize cap space for draft picks are when they’re the third team and retaining. There is a limit to how many contracts you can retain on, and the Flames actually have three players they need to retain on to get the highest value out of, so none of those trades are available to them and it has zero to do with Huberdeau.

Trades where players are moved with a pick for future considerations or a far lower pick are much more rare. And with three of Lindholm, Hanifin, Tanev, and Markstrom out the door, the Flames will have significant room to make any of those deals. So Huberdeau isn’t holding them back there.

I mean, if all we want to do is make more of those trades, isn’t every other player that isn’t being traded holding the team back, too? Why not trade everyone for beans?

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by TOfan

That’s a terrible analogy for numerous reasons that are well known. They’re down to their last breathe.


Is there any other relevant examples you can point to other than the complete and total outlier that has been lost in the woods for the past quarter century or so?

Carolina bought a 1st for taking Marleau.
Detroit bought a 2nd for taking Marc Staal.
Chicago moved up in the draft for taking Mrazek.
Monahan.
Kassian (sorry, I’m not allowed to talk about Arizona).

[GioforPM]

Any not involving desperate Canadian teams? Toronto and Edmonton (and Calgary).

These are all examples Calgary can do this offseason without Huberdeau's space.

[dirk diggler]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

He’s stopping us from signing the Lucic/Neal/Brouwer-level contracts.

That’s all I’ve got. Point production can come later if it ever does, when we are good.

It’s safe to say he is NOT a franchise player, but can very well be a better player when we have a better supporting cast, in my opinion. Not producing with Backlund is a bit concerning though.

At what point do you actually put it on the player for playing terribly for 110-115 games? its the Flames fault? thats weird, as there are players on the team including a rookie who look pretty impactful. i am sure analytics isnt kind to him but the eye test tells me a lot, he is awful.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Most trades where teams utilize cap space for draft picks are when they’re the third team and retaining. There is a limit to how many contracts you can retain on, and the Flames actually have three players they need to retain on to get the highest value out of, so none of those trades are available to them and it has zero to do with Huberdeau.

Trades where players are moved with a pick for future considerations or a far lower pick are much more rare. And with three of Lindholm, Hanifin, Tanev, and Markstrom out the door, the Flames will have significant room to make any of those deals. So Huberdeau isn’t holding them back there.

I mean, if all we want to do is make more of those trades, isn’t every other player that isn’t being traded holding the team back, too? Why not trade everyone for beans?

Exactly.

It’s as though some posters here think a viable strategy for this team would be to have 23 players signed to equal $2.68M dollar contracts to get them to the cap floor and then become the graveyard for other teams contracts so we too can have 20 second round picks.

The funny thing is, they will be able to acquire more than their fair share of picks without having to do anything they aren’t already doing with Huberdeau.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by butterfly

Carolina bought a 1st for taking Marleau.
Detroit bought a 2nd for taking Marc Staal.
Chicago moved up in the draft for taking Mrazek.
Monahan.
Kassian (sorry, I’m not allowed to talk about Arizona).

Yeah, those are one offs. The Flames can/should do this, where they can.

There’s not much reason to point to Arizona and think the Flames are anything like they are. That’s a bad analogy.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Any not involving desperate Canadian teams? Toronto and Edmonton (and Calgary).

These are all examples Calgary can do this offseason without Huberdeau's space.

I listed examples of teams doing this. Who cares if it is a Canadian or American team? The picks are worth what they are worth.

Flames have a good enough supporting cast to make the playoffs and no stars. We can’t afford a star because we are paying Huberdeau like one.

[Strange Brew]

If Huberdeau retires tomorrow and his cap hit is removed, are the Flames immediately better off, worse off or the same?