What to do with Huberdeau?

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by dirk diggler

Agreed, not sure how people dont see this. if we had all that cap space, we could take on the next Monahan and get a 1st round draft pick, having a boat anchor at 10.5 is brutal even if the team isnt a contender right now.

The Flames will have the cap space anyways unless you think they will be taking on 20 million of long term cap dumps.
Huberdeau sucks and his contract is brutal but it doesn’t matter much while the Flames bottom out. The last two years are worrisome but that’s far away and there might be some options out there by then

[D as in David]

Having some cap space that can be weaponized is an asset but having more of it is somehow not a greater asset?!?! Because they might incorrectly utilize it by signing a UFA? How they use that extra space is a separate decision but does not negate the utility of having more cap space. Is there some amount, in dollars, where cap space loses its value?

[mikephoen]

Originally Posted by Icantwhisper

Whew!! We are not even half way through the first year of an eight year deal and over 2000 posts, where we going to be in year eight??? Math says 32,000 but so many variables, can’t wait to find out ��

I’m also interested in this!

We should probably start working on the subtitle for volume 2 of this thread soon!

[kukkudo]

Originally Posted by mikephoen

I’m also interested in this!

We should probably start working on the subtitle for volume 2 of this thread soon!

Huberdeau is no good.

[dirk diggler]

he has 2 games remaining in December to get 1 point, so he isnt shut out the whole month, thats impressive.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by D as in David

Having some cap space that can be weaponized is an asset but having more of it is somehow not a greater asset?!?! Because they might incorrectly utilize it by signing a UFA? How they use that extra space is a separate decision but does not negate the utility of having more cap space. Is there some amount, in dollars, where cap space loses its value?

Yes, the team would be in a better spot without Huberdeau but he isn’t hindering a rebuild. There isn’t a way to get out from under it now.

[Hockey_Ninja]

Huberdeau’s contract currently isn’t hindering the cap space that much but it definitely can in time. Especially when the time comes to sign talented RFA’s to new contracts. All we can really hope for is that the cap has jumped up enough to where his contract isn’t as bad on the cap or he has a bounce back someway somehow

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Hockey_Ninja

Huberdeau’s contract currently isn’t hindering the cap space that much but it definitely can in time. Especially when the time comes to sign talented RFA’s to new contracts. All we can really hope for is that the cap has jumped up enough to where his contract isn’t as bad on the cap or he has a bounce back someway somehow

That’s why I said it wasn’t an issue for 3-4 years. And said then it will be (depending on the cap size as you say, and also if he somehow improves his play to the point he can be dealt with some retention).

[Classic_Sniper]

Huberdeau’s contract is 100% a hindrance on the current club and I don’t know how anyone can say otherwise. His struggles might actually be the principal reason why the franchise is looking into rebuild/retool in the first place.

It’s very clear that management went into the 23-24 season trying to contend. They weren’t looking into rebuilding until that disaster of a start occurred, then they finally clued in that this core wasn’t going to work out. So yes, Huberdeau’s poor performance and giant albatross of a contract absolutely is relevant.

Just think about what that extra $10.5M could’ve done for this roster if it weren’t for Tre’s itchy trigger finger. A lot of impact players went for cheap this summer like a Matt Duchene, Ryan O’Reilly, Vladimir Tarasasenko, Shane Gostisbehere, JVR and etc. The possibilities were endless for Conroy and he could’ve found some serious value if only they didn’t have Huberdeau on the books.

Who knows, maybe the Flames make some of these additions with all the free cap space and we’re sitting pretty in a playoff position today. The entire conversation, narrative and outlook for this franchise would be completely different right now.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Huberdeau’s contract is 100% a hindrance on the current club and I don’t know how anyone can say otherwise. His struggles might actually be the principal reason why the franchise is looking into rebuild/retool in the first place.

It’s very clear that management went into the 23-24 season trying to contend. They weren’t looking into rebuilding until that disaster of a start occurred, then they finally clued in that this core wasn’t going to work out. So yes, Huberdeau’s poor performance and giant albatross of a contract absolutely is relevant.

Just think about what that extra $10.5M could’ve done for this roster if it weren’t for Tre’s itchy trigger finger. A lot of impact players went for cheap this summer like a Matt Duchene, Ryan O’Reilly, Vladimir Tarasasenko, Shane Gostisbehere, JVR and etc. The possibilities were endless for Conroy and he could’ve found some serious value if only they didn’t have Huberdeau on the books.

Who knows, maybe the Flames make some of these additions with all the free cap space and we’re sitting pretty in a playoff position today. The entire conversation, narrative and outlook for this franchise would be completely different right now.

Still missing the point. I’m not talking about when the contract was signed. That was obviously a mistake, in hindsight, though there were plenty here who said the trade was a failure unless Huberdeau signed long term.

I’m not even talking about last offseason, though the Flames could have made those moves you talk about if they traded their UFAs back then. I’m talking about right now, because that’s the topic. Right now the cap hit is a minor impact on what the team is doing with its roster. Whatever they want to call it, the team is rebuilding - Toffoli and Zadorov prove this. So unless there was a need to take $10M back in a deal for the UFAs, I don’t see a realistic issue this year as far as cap is concerned. Or next year.

[Strange Brew]

Maybe you sign Hanifin, a young vey hard to acquire top 4 defenseman, and use the cap space from not having Huberdeau’s contract to acquire a pick or two. Or you just acquire more assets.

Not having Huberdeau’s cap hit makes a rebuild or retool instantly easier.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Huberdeau’s contract is 100% a hindrance on the current club and I don’t know how anyone can say otherwise. His struggles might actually be the principal reason why the franchise is looking into rebuild/retool in the first place.

It’s very clear that management went into the 23-24 season trying to contend. They weren’t looking into rebuilding until that disaster of a start occurred, then they finally clued in that this core wasn’t going to work out. So yes, Huberdeau’s poor performance and giant albatross of a contract absolutely is relevant.

Just think about what that extra $10.5M could’ve done for this roster if it weren’t for Tre’s itchy trigger finger. A lot of impact players went for cheap this summer like a Matt Duchene, Ryan O’Reilly, Vladimir Tarasasenko, Shane Gostisbehere, JVR and etc. The possibilities were endless for Conroy and he could’ve found some serious value if only they didn’t have Huberdeau on the books.

Who knows, maybe the Flames make some of these additions with all the free cap space and we’re sitting pretty in a playoff position today. The entire conversation, narrative and outlook for this franchise would be completely different right now.

To say that he isn't hurting a rebuild likely isn't wrong, but it is a small argument in the scheme of things. My guess is management one way or the other has an opinion about it and how it will fit into the overall direction of the organization. I think as long as he is playing well enough going forward we just have to embrace it. I think Conroy's level of patience so far has been an excellent for the organization and it is probably the same direction he's taking with Huberdeau. We could even argue that if Huberdeau was scoring the odd goals he would more likely be hindering a rebuild.

[Spurs]

Not being able trade him is not a minor hinderance it is a major issue. That should be a big piece we can use to kickstart the rebuild, instead it’s an unmovable boat anchor.

[D as in David]

So having more assets or more of one asset doesn't help* in a rebuild? Do extra picks or older players you're willing to trade to get more youth not help? If those assets do help why doesn't having more of a limited resource like cap space not help a rebuild? Did someone put de-caffeinated beans in my coffee grinder today? So many questions.

*antonym of hindrance

[Muta]

The way I see it, Coleman is producing at Huberdeau's expected levels right now, and Huberdeau's Coleman's. If you add up their salaries and expectations as a collective, it seems we're getting fair value if you combine the two players' production right now (especially Coleman's increasing PPG). From an end result standpoint from the firm's expected output, everything is going according to plan.

At least this is what I tell myself, it helps me sleep better at night.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Spurs

Not being able trade him is not a minor hinderance it is a major issue. That should be a big piece we can use to kickstart the rebuild, instead it’s an unmovable boat anchor.

It is an anchor as fan we can't do anything about, we can complain about it over and over but it really doesn't change anything. I think we have to start looking at the bigger picture and what the organization might want to do about it, which is not a lot. I guess it is that as long as he's playing well enough the organization is going to keep moving forward while developing the younger players. I think if Treliving was still here that is where the fingers would be pointed, Conroy likely is doing about all he can. I agree with you though that is quite the anchor. At least some of that forces the organization to be better in other areas especially in regards to development and the team game.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by D as in David

So having more assets or more of one asset doesn't help* in a rebuild? Do extra picks or older players you're willing to trade to get more youth not help? If those assets do help why doesn't having more of a limited resource like cap space not help a rebuild? Did someone put de-caffeinated beans in my coffee grinder today? So many questions.

*antonym of hindrance

You must be drinking decaf if you can’t quite comprehend that no one is arguing Huberdeau is good or that the Flames wouldn’t be better off if they traded him instead of signing him to his current contract. However, that’s not what happened and as of now he is accelerating a rebuild versus hindering one.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Spurs

Not being able trade him is not a minor hinderance it is a major issue. That should be a big piece we can use to kickstart the rebuild, instead it’s an unmovable boat anchor.

Yeah, that’s on Treliving though. He made a #### sandwich and skipped town. Mind bottling that Edwards wanted to keep him on though. I just hope there will be options to move the last two years of his deal when it matters again

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by D as in David

So having more assets or more of one asset doesn't help* in a rebuild? Do extra picks or older players you're willing to trade to get more youth not help? If those assets do help why doesn't having more of a limited resource like cap space not help a rebuild? Did someone put de-caffeinated beans in my coffee grinder today? So many questions.

*antonym of hindrance

Something can not be a help without being a hindrance. If you don't help out the Food Bank, are you a hindrance to it?

Cap space =/= extra picks unless there's someone so desperate to offload a bad contract they will give up picks to do so. Huberdeau obviously has a terrible contract for his performance and age but I don't see the Flames offering picks or other assets to get rid of it. There just aren't too many deals like that.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Still missing the point. I’m not talking about when the contract was signed. That was obviously a mistake, in hindsight, though there were plenty here who said the trade was a failure unless Huberdeau signed long term.

I’m not even talking about last offseason, though the Flames could have made those moves you talk about if they traded their UFAs back then. I’m talking about right now, because that’s the topic. Right now the cap hit is a minor impact on what the team is doing with its roster. Whatever they want to call it, the team is rebuilding - Toffoli and Zadorov prove this. So unless there was a need to take $10M back in a deal for the UFAs, I don’t see a realistic issue this year as far as cap is concerned. Or next year.

I am talking about right now. Your premise is based around the team rebuilding, what I’m arguing is that the team might not be rebuilding if it weren’t for Huberdeau’s contract.

If Jonathan had walked this past summer, the Flames would’ve had all kinds of cap space to play with. They could’ve re-signed Toffoli, then added a PP qb like Gostisbehere, a Ryan O’Reilly or a Duchene or whoever.

We probably would be talking who we’re facing in the first round instead of retooling/rebuilding.