What to do with Huberdeau?

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

You said his cap hit is hurting the team. I said, at this moment, tell me how that is? This team is rebuilding. It is not trying to sign any big salary players. So right now, as overpaid as he is, Huberdeau’s cap hit has pretty much no effect on what the team is doing right now.

And no, he’s not preventing a re-signing of players like Lindholm or Hanifin.

I have no idea how you can truly believe this. If the Flames had someone like Ben Jones playing for league minimum and going 11-0-0-0, with PP time, you don’t think they’d be better off with that $9.75M in cap space to relieve some other team of their poor decision making and acquire a prospect or draft pick or both?

That’s about a 1st and a B prospect at least. For one year. Now multiply that by 8.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by butterfly

I have no idea how you can truly believe this. If the Flames had someone like Ben Jones playing for league minimum and going 11-0-0-0, with PP time, you don’t think they’d be better off with that $9.75M in cap space to relieve some other team of their poor decision making and acquire a prospect or draft pick or both?

That’s about a 1st and a B prospect at least. For one year. Now multiply that by 8.

LOL. So you want to sell 10M in cap space every year for 8 years. For picks and prospects. Let’s see if they can sell the space they have now and in the next couple years with Hanifin, Tanev and Lindholm gone.

The cap hit will hurt in 4 years. Until then, it’s a non-issue.

Moreover, it is what it is. It’s there, it’s not going anywhere, and whining about ice time and fantasizing about benching him or retiring him are a complete waste of time.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

LOL. So you want to sell 10M in cap space every year for 8 years. For picks and prospects. Let’s see if they can sell the space they have now and in the next couple years with Hanifin, Tanev and Lindholm gone.

The cap hit will hurt in 4 years. Until then, it’s a non-issue.

That’s funny? Yes, I’d much rather use that money on a 1st and a B prospect. You can use your money to pay Huberdeau to pass into people’s skates, miss empty nets, and give up shots on 2-on-1s.

If Vancouver or Edmonton gave out this deal we would all be laughing ourselves silly, but it’s our problem, so at least some of us are actually sad about it.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

LOL. So you want to sell 10M in cap space every year for 8 years. For picks and prospects. Let’s see if they can sell the space they have now and in the next couple years with Hanifin, Tanev and Lindholm gone.

The cap hit will hurt in 4 years. Until then, it’s a non-issue.

Moreover, it is what it is. It’s there, it’s not going anywhere, and whining about ice time and fantasizing about benching him or retiring him are a complete waste of time.

This makes zero sense at all.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

You said his cap hit is hurting the team. I said, at this moment, tell me how that is? This team is rebuilding. It is not trying to sign any big salary players. So right now, as overpaid as he is, Huberdeau’s cap hit has pretty much no effect on what the team is doing right now.

And no, he’s not preventing a re-signing of players like Lindholm or Hanifin.

I think they should extend Dube for $12 million per.

[SuperMatt18]

Thing is there's nothing they can do to get rid of the $10.5M.

Of course you'd rather not have Huberdeau for $10.5M. But you can't trade him, you can't buy him out. So you're not getting rid of the $10.5M, so you kind of have to ignore that for a second.

In terms of "Is he hurting them on ice"...well yes and no.

Yes, when you factor in his salary and what he's supposed to be providing to the team...100%.

But should be be sent down or scratched for a long period of time. I'd say No, I'd be scratching other guys (Dube, Ruzicka) before I'm putting Huberdeau in the press box.

He's actually close to the team lead in a lot of underlying stats at 5v5 these last 11 games but can't buy a point.

Corsi For: 55.0% (1st)
Shots For: 52.4% (2nd)
Scoring Chances For: 56.3% (1st)
High Danger For: 58.3% (1st)
XGF%: 52.9% (4th - behind Kadri line)

Actual GF%: 40% (4 For - 6 against)

Extremely unlucky to not have a point in 11 games. Really all they can do is keep playing him, hope he finds confidence/chemistry, and that he finds his game again.

Would they be better off without his $10.5M salary, of course but you're not going to be able to get rid of that. And if they are rebuilding (like they should) then at least it's not as painful as it would be if they were trying to contend still. So really you have to just hope that somehow he finds even 70% of the production he had in Florida.

[FBI]

Pelletier is our only hope for Huberdeau

[heep223]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

LOL. So you want to sell 10M in cap space every year for 8 years. For picks and prospects. Let’s see if they can sell the space they have now and in the next couple years with Hanifin, Tanev and Lindholm gone.

The cap hit will hurt in 4 years. Until then, it’s a non-issue.

Moreover, it is what it is. It’s there, it’s not going anywhere, and whining about ice time and fantasizing about benching him or retiring him are a complete waste of time.

You’re really stretching with the argument that he’s not hurting the team. It’s disingenuous. He’s obviously hurting the team with his play and his cap hit

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by heep223

You’re really stretching with the argument that he’s not hurting the team. It’s disingenuous. He’s obviously hurting the team with his play and his cap hit

It's not an accident that he is a -14, which is twice as bad as the next worst player.

Plus/minus isn't a perfect metric, but it is useful for comparing players in the same team. He routinely kills momentum and makes mistakes that end up in the back of the net. Every once in a while, he does something right that gives you a glimmer of hope and his supporters latch on to it and ignore everything else.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by heep223

You’re really stretching with the argument that he’s not hurting the team. It’s disingenuous. He’s obviously hurting the team with his play and his cap hit

Dude, I said his cap hit isn’t hurting the team at the moment because they don’t need the space. Nothing more. Speaking of disingenuous, please don’t misrepresent my argument.

You say his cap hit is “obviously” hurting the team. How? Are they looking to sign someone they can’t? Or are they actively shedding even more cap, like Toffoli and Zadorov, and looking to do even more?

You’d think that all the posters who say his cap hit is hurting could give just one example of why. The closest is some fiction that the Flames could take on a $9M contract for a pick. OK, who?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

This makes zero sense at all.

I’m sure you can explain how his cap hit is an issue on a team that doesn’t need the cap space and won’t for several years.

[1qqaaz]

Gaudreau: 15 points in last 16 games
Huberdeau: 0 points in last 11 games

These stats are as picky-and-choosy as possible.
But they're starting to become less comparable.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by butterfly

That’s funny? Yes, I’d much rather use that money on a 1st and a B prospect. You can use your money to pay Huberdeau to pass into people’s skates, miss empty nets, and give up shots on 2-on-1s.

If Vancouver or Edmonton gave out this deal we would all be laughing ourselves silly, but it’s our problem, so at least some of us are actually sad about it.

How do you “use that money on a first and a B prospect”? Show me that deal.

The fact you are embarrassed about a player making money that you don’t pay is what’s sad.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

How do you “use that money on a first and a B prospect”? Show me that deal.

The fact you are embarrassed about a player making money that you don’t pay is what’s sad.

I don’t know. Show Montreal? Show Arizona when the Ekman-Larsson deal came up? They had the space waiting for an opportunity to present itself.

I’m embarrassed because I’m a Flames fan and we have never had the worst contract in the league until now. I’d rather lose with AHL players who play their hearts out than with a $10.5 million floater. I really think you are of the minority opinion on this one. Not that it makes it wrong, but it should at least make you think a bit.

[GUnit]

Send him to Quebec, done with this guy, team is finding a way in spite of him. He's 2023 James Neal fu treliving

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I’m sure you can explain how his cap hit is an issue on a team that doesn’t need the cap space and won’t for several years.

This is a silly argument and I'm sure you know it. You're suggesting the Flames were otherwise planning to stay $10.5 mil below the cap for the next several years?

Did you hear Conroy talk about how valuable the cap space created by the Zadorov trade was?

You can't be serious here.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Thing is there's nothing they can do to get rid of the $10.5M.

Of course you'd rather not have Huberdeau for $10.5M. But you can't trade him, you can't buy him out. So you're not getting rid of the $10.5M, so you kind of have to ignore that for a second.

In terms of "Is he hurting them on ice"...well yes and no.

Yes, when you factor in his salary and what he's supposed to be providing to the team...100%.

But should be be sent down or scratched for a long period of time. I'd say No, I'd be scratching other guys (Dube, Ruzicka) before I'm putting Huberdeau in the press box.

He's actually close to the team lead in a lot of underlying stats at 5v5 these last 11 games but can't buy a point.

Corsi For: 55.0% (1st)
Shots For: 52.4% (2nd)
Scoring Chances For: 56.3% (1st)
High Danger For: 58.3% (1st)
XGF%: 52.9% (4th - behind Kadri line)

Actual GF%: 40% (4 For - 6 against)

Extremely unlucky to not have a point in 11 games. Really all they can do is keep playing him, hope he finds confidence/chemistry, and that he finds his game again.

Would they be better off without his $10.5M salary, of course but you're not going to be able to get rid of that. And if they are rebuilding (like they should) then at least it's not as painful as it would be if they were trying to contend still. So really you have to just hope that somehow he finds even 70% of the production he had in Florida.

Toronto should be contractually obligated to take him.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by butterfly

I don’t know. Show Montreal? Show Arizona when the Ekman-Larsson deal came up? They had the space waiting for an opportunity to present itself.

I’m embarrassed because I’m a Flames fan and we have never had the worst contract in the league until now. I’d rather lose with AHL players who play their hearts out than with a $10.5 million floater. I really think you are of the minority opinion on this one. Not that it makes it wrong, but it should at least make you think a bit.

What are you talking about? Arizona didn’t sell cap space on the Ekman Larsen deal? They conned Vancouver into trading for OEL. And Montreal? Are you talking about Monahan?

I know you don’t know the deal Calgary could get because there’s no one trying to sell a bad contract and give up picks to do it. It’s talked about but almost never done.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Dude, I said his cap hit isn’t hurting the team at the moment because they don’t need the space. Nothing more. Speaking of disingenuous, please don’t misrepresent my argument.

You say his cap hit is “obviously” hurting the team. How? Are they looking to sign someone they can’t? Or are they actively shedding even more cap, like Toffoli and Zadorov, and looking to do even more?

You’d think that all the posters who say his cap hit is hurting could give just one example of why. The closest is some fiction that the Flames could take on a $9M contract for a pick. OK, who?

I think it's a difference of perspective. I see what you're saying, it is what it is at this point. We have Huberdeau and his cap hit, and the team is on rails now.

The way I see it, his cap hit is hurting the team because we need a star player worthy of his cap hit, and the fact he has that cap hit and isn't anywhere near living up to that, means that we probably won't have that type of player for the next 7 years. That hurts the team. Maybe it doesn't matter because the team isn't overly competitive at this point, but the reason we aren't overly competitive is largely due to the wasted investment in Huberdeau.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

This is a silly argument and I'm sure you know it. You're suggesting the Flames were otherwise planning to stay $10.5 mil below the cap for the next several years?

Did you hear Conroy talk about how valuable the cap space created by the Zadorov trade was?

You can't be serious here.

I’m saying for the next 4 years or so Calgary will not be making big signings and won’t need to make big money extensions. Who do you think Calgary would be signing in the next few years but for Huberdeau’s hit?

Again, show your work, instead of sneering at the argument. The Flames don’t need to stay 10M below cap for the hit to be irrelevant. The relevance is them being unable to do something they otherwise would do. So what is it?