What to do with Huberdeau?

[Flamesfan05]

You can’t look at the average salary and say someone is pulling their weight. There are a lot of overpaid underperforming people that pull down everything.

I mean Anthony Mantha is scoring about the same pace as Mangiapane for similar salary and nobody is saying Mantha is any good.

[SuperMatt18]

Okay then explain why Mangiapane isn't pulling his weight or worth his salary.

He has 14 Even Strength points which ranks 79th among forwards in the NHL....that is tied or better than:

Evgeni Malkin
Vincent Trocheck
Filip Forsberg
Martin Necas
Cole Perfetti
Anze Kopitar
Steven Stamkos
Evander Kane
Tyler Toffoli
Valeri Nichushkin
Sebastian Aho
Brady Tkachuk

He's producing perfectly fine at 5V5 for both his role and salary and hasn't been bringing players down at all. His underlying metrics are still perfectly fine and some of the better results on the team. Not a liability defensively. Honestly the biggest issue that I can find is he keeps getting called for questionable penalties that other players aren't getting called for.

The problem with his production (and lots of players on the team TBH) is that the anemic PP, and really he's gotten limited minutes with the second unit so tough to blame him for that too.

[Tkachukwagon]

Is Meier a worse contract than Huberdeau? This may be an opportunity to trade one problem for another:

https://twitter.com/user/status/1737882604144095365

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

You can’t look at the average salary and say someone is pulling their weight. There are a lot of overpaid underperforming people that pull down everything.

I mean Anthony Mantha is scoring about the same pace as Mangiapane for similar salary and nobody is saying Mantha is any good.

The average points this season for the 75th to 125th highest paid forwards is 19. Mangiapane is earning his contract but isn’t exceeding it. So trade value wise you can probably swap him for someone in a similar boat.

[SuperMatt18]

His trade value probably isn't amazing for the same reason somebody like Conor Garlands aren't.

Teams don't want to trade assets for small, middle 6 wingers, unless they have elite production. But tough for those guys to have elite counting stats with their limited PP usage.

So they end up being more valuable to the team that has them then they are in a trade. (personally I think some NHL GMs are stupid because it's actually probably a market inefficiency you could take advantage of)

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

You can’t look at the average salary and say someone is pulling their weight. There are a lot of overpaid underperforming people that pull down everything.

I mean Anthony Mantha is scoring about the same pace as Mangiapane for similar salary and nobody is saying Mantha is any good.

Your objection doesn’t really make any sense. If a player’s production ranking is roughly equivalent to his salary ranking, he’s pulling his weight or “worth” the contract he’s getting.

There are players making less that are producing more, they’re giving teams more than their money’s worth.

There are players making more that are producing less, they’re giving teams less than their moneys worth.

Both of these things balance each other out.

It doesn’t have anything to do with who is subjectively “good” and who isn’t. It just is what it is.

We expect the highest paid players to be the best players, so why wouldn’t we expect the 100th highest paid player to be the 100th best player?

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Tkachukwagon

Is Meier a worse contract than Huberdeau? This may be an opportunity to trade one problem for another:

https://twitter.com/user/status/1737882604144095365

I don't think any contract is even in the same league as Hudedeau's. I would gladly swap 1 for 1 with Meier, but it just aint gonna happen.

[SuperMatt18]

Meier has been bad - like worse than Huberdeau bad by pretty much any metric but especially defensively. He's still younger, and $1.7M difference in salaries is not nothing, so that goes in his favour.

Meier's NTC doesn't kick in until next season though...so Devils may be motivated to act quickly.

I don't think it would work 1 for 1 but I think something like this could (although NHL GMs would never take a risk like doing this).

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Stole this from Scorp's Twitter but it's an interesting comparison https://x.com/miketgould/status/1736...104601237?s=46

Meier is another guy that went to a new team and has just looked terrible, like even worse than Huberdeau has looked.

In another "trade idea that NHL GMs would never actually make" post but:

Huberdeau: $10.5M
Markstrom: $3.0M ($6.0M w/50% retention)

Total: $13.5M

For

Meier: $8.8M
Palat: $4.5M ($6.0M w/25% retention)

Total: $13.3M

I actually have no doubt that Huberdeau would fit in more with the speedy centers and rush based offense that Hughes, Hischier, and Mercer provide

[FlamesAddiction]

It would be pretty much another Neal for Lucic type of gamble.

I like Timo's game a lot, when he is on of course. I think he would fit well with the group and style the Flames player. I would do it.

[HighLifeMan]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

I don't think any contract is even in the same league as Hudedeau's. I would gladly swap 1 for 1 with Meier, but it just aint gonna happen.

I'd argue it's worse.

Timo Meier makes 8.8M and has never once recorded a point per game season, and has a career high of 76 points. Huberdeau on the other hand recorded 4 straight seasons at a point or game or higher prior to his arrival here, including 115 and 92 point seasons respectively.

I'd take a 1.7M million gamble on the player who has shown on numerous occasions that he can be an elite point producer in this league.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Okay then explain why Mangiapane isn't pulling his weight or worth his salary.

He has 14 Even Strength points which ranks 79th among forwards in the NHL....that is tied or better than:

Evgeni Malkin
Vincent Trocheck
Filip Forsberg
Martin Necas
Cole Perfetti
Anze Kopitar
Steven Stamkos
Evander Kane
Tyler Toffoli
Valeri Nichushkin
Sebastian Aho
Brady Tkachuk

He's producing perfectly fine at 5V5 for both his role and salary and hasn't been bringing players down at all. His underlying metrics are still perfectly fine and some of the better results on the team. Not a liability defensively. Honestly the biggest issue that I can find is he keeps getting called for questionable penalties that other players aren't getting called for.

The problem with his production (and lots of players on the team TBH) is that the anemic PP, and really he's gotten limited minutes with the second unit so tough to blame him for that too.

Wonder why every single one of those guys are more valuable than Mangi

He doesnt get a pass because he has no contribution on the PP. He is not good enough to be on the most pathetic PP in the league

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Your objection doesn’t really make any sense. If a player’s production ranking is roughly equivalent to his salary ranking, he’s pulling his weight or “worth” the contract he’s getting.

There are players making less that are producing more, they’re giving teams more than their money’s worth.

There are players making more that are producing less, they’re giving teams less than their moneys worth.

Both of these things balance each other out.

It doesn’t have anything to do with who is subjectively “good” and who isn’t. It just is what it is.

We expect the highest paid players to be the best players, so why wouldn’t we expect the 100th highest paid player to be the 100th best player?

He is the 3rd highest paid Forward and currently 10th on team scoring including behind 3 dmen.

Anyway make sense or not, I can’t remember too many times he actually was the major factor in the team winning. That’s not good for being the 3rd highest paid fwd. Poposil actually had more impact than him. Think about that ?

[AustinL_NHL]

Meier is a shot volume machine that drives play and showed just last season he's more than capable of scoring 40 goals.

Ruff also admitted that his skating is still not close to 100% from his injury (not too sure why he's playing, though it seems to apparently be an injury that he can't make worse playing on).

Meier could still be traded right now for positive value, me thinks.

Him and Huberdeau are nowhere near the same realm of bad contracts. At least not unless Meier's current play continues all of this season and next

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by AustinL_NHL

Meier is a shot volume machine that drives play and showed just last season he's more than capable of scoring 40 goals.

Ruff also admitted that his skating is still not close to 100% from his injury (not too sure why he's playing, though it seems to apparently be an injury that he can't make worse playing on).

Meier could still be traded right now for positive value, me thinks.

Him and Huberdeau are nowhere near the same realm of bad contracts. At least not unless Meier's current play continues all of this season and next

If his poor play continues all of this season it becomes a question for sure.

His NMC kicks in July 1...New Jersey might want to make a decision at the draft on a guy that's looked terrible since he put on a Devils jersey.

[AustinL_NHL]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

If his poor play continues all of this season it becomes a question for sure.

His NMC kicks in July 1...New Jersey might want to make a decision at the draft on a guy that's looked terrible since he put on a Devils jersey.

100% agree. Because of the specific situation New Jersey is in, I could definitely see them being much less patient. Especially with his trade protection kicking in this offseason.

I just still think they'd easily be able to get value for him, or at the very least dump him without giving up assets

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by AustinL_NHL

Meier is a shot volume machine that drives play and showed just last season he's more than capable of scoring 40 goals.

Ruff also admitted that his skating is still not close to 100% from his injury (not too sure why he's playing, though it seems to apparently be an injury that he can't make worse playing on).

Meier could still be traded right now for positive value, me thinks.

Him and Huberdeau are nowhere near the same realm of bad contracts. At least not unless Meier's current play continues all of this season and next

As SM18 above mentioned, the NMC that kicks in on July 1st could be the catalyst that make NJ act. It just depends how much they want to gamble with Meier. They may not have an option or flexibility past July 1st if things don't work out.

[stemit14]

Interesting that, at this point, it does not feel like management or the coaching staff are concerned with “getting Huberdeau going” like they were earlier in the year. It’s likely because the rest of the team is playing well and they’ve, for the most part, settled into their lines. Huberdeau is being left to figure it out it seems… which is probably best for now.

[Two Fivenagame]

Would love to see Huberdeau sign up for some world championship action. Could be a great opportunity for him to find his game under different circumstances.

Beyond that... I'm out of ideas at this point.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

He is the 3rd highest paid Forward and currently 10th on team scoring including behind 3 dmen.

Anyway make sense or not, I can’t remember too many times he actually was the major factor in the team winning. That’s not good for being the 3rd highest paid fwd. Poposil actually had more impact than him. Think about that ?

That’s because the Flames have more than a couple of forwards who are outperforming their contract. That’s why you have to look at contracts in context of the league and include both players who are outperforming and underperforming against their salary.

If you take away context and just say “he’s 7th! not good enough for his salary! meep!” you can just as easily say he’s outperforming the highest paid player, so he must be doing good.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Meier has been bad - like worse than Huberdeau bad by pretty much any metric but especially defensively. He's still younger, and $1.7M difference in salaries is not nothing, so that goes in his favour.

Meier's NTC doesn't kick in until next season though...so Devils may be motivated to act quickly.

I don't think it would work 1 for 1 but I think something like this could (although NHL GMs would never take a risk like doing this).

Oh man, I'd easily trade Huberdeau's contract for Timo Meier with significant retention plus a sweetener. Feel like Meier's struggles are probably more due to injury then anything as he started the season off well, but hasn't done anything since coming back. Wonder if he's still feeling the effects of the injury.