What to do with Huberdeau?

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

If Huberdeau was producing like they thought he would when he signed the contract, I don't think the team would be anywhere near a rebuild. I know guys like Coleman, Kadri, Weegar, and Huberdeau himself, didn't sign on long term to be in a rebuild. If Huberdeau was at least a 70-80 point player, this team would have easily made the playoffs last year and would likely be near the top of the division this year.

The whole reason we are lookng at a potential rebuild is because of the colossal failure Huberdeau has been.

Flames are pretty much getting their money’s worth out of most people right now, except Mangiapane, Dube, Markstrom, and glaringly, Huberdeau.

[dirk diggler]

Originally Posted by butterfly

Flames are pretty much getting their money’s worth out of most people right now, except Mangiapane, Dube, Markstrom, and glaringly, Huberdeau.

Markstrom? i disagree on that one. the rest you mentioned, for sure

[GioforPM]

Markstrom’s fine. And Mangiapane and Dube are not much overpaid in this market

[taxbuster]

Fake Firefox quote:
Flames are pretty much getting their money’s worth out of most people right now, except Mangiapane, Dube, Markstrom, and glaringly, Huberdeau.



Agree on all but Markstrom, whom I think is earning his cheque right now. He's had issues, but has also won and played well at other times. Not much different than any goalie.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Just like McDavid can't make the Oilers good all by himself, neither can Huberdeau make the Flames bad, all by himself. It's a team game.

The Oilers are a bad team, but McDavid carried them halfway to the Stanley Cup.

Look how many 1 goal games the Flames have lost since Huberdeau has been here. Surely if he could contribute another 25 points, it would make a measurable difference in the win-loss record. The Flames aren't a bad team. They have decent depth in the line-up, they just lack the big guns.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by dirk diggler

Markstrom? i disagree on that one. the rest you mentioned, for sure

I’ll try not to derail the Huberdeau thread but I argued in the trade rumor thread a few days ago that I think we are getting $2 million goaltending from Markstrom for $6 million.

Originally Posted by taxbuster

Fake Firefox quote:
Flames are pretty much getting their money’s worth out of most people right now, except Mangiapane, Dube, Markstrom, and glaringly, Huberdeau.



Agree on all but Markstrom, whom I think is earning his cheque right now. He's had issues, but has also won and played well at other times. Not much different than any goalie.

Fake Firefox?!

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

If Huberdeau was producing like they thought he would when he signed the contract, I don't think the team would be anywhere near a rebuild. I know guys like Coleman, Kadri, Weegar, and Huberdeau himself, didn't sign on long term to be in a rebuild. If Huberdeau was at least a 70-80 point player, this team would have easily made the playoffs last year and would likely be near the top of the division this year.

The whole reason we are lookng at a potential rebuild is because of the colossal failure Huberdeau has been.

Where we might’ve been had things been different doesn’t really have any relevance to where we actually are.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

The Oilers are a bad team, but McDavid carried them halfway to the Stanley Cup.

Look how many 1 goal games the Flames have lost since Huberdeau has been here. Surely if he could contribute another 25 points, it would make a measurable difference in the win-loss record. The Flames aren't a bad team. They have decent depth in the line-up, they just lack the big guns.

The Oilers have been hot garbage for a long, long time. McDavid may have dragged them halfway there but Pronger dragged a crappier group of losers to within tasting distance of the Cup.

You've gotta play defence to win.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by butterfly

Flames are pretty much getting their money’s worth out of most people right now, except Mangiapane, Dube, Markstrom, and glaringly, Huberdeau.

I think you have to look at the totality of the season. As a first pairing for example, Weegar and Rasmus are having issues.

Kadri good now but was a disaster at the start of the year. Lindholm too.

At a 79 point pace, I feel there’s a number of players that need more sustained good play to have fully earned their salary.

I kind of think Markstrom’s been OK which speaks to how many of the skaters haven’t consistently delivered.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

If Huberdeau was producing like they thought he would when he signed the contract, I don't think the team would be anywhere near a rebuild. I know guys like Coleman, Kadri, Weegar, and Huberdeau himself, didn't sign on long term to be in a rebuild. If Huberdeau was at least a 70-80 point player, this team would have easily made the playoffs last year and would likely be near the top of the division this year.

The whole reason we are lookng at a potential rebuild is because of the colossal failure Huberdeau has been.

Agreed. I’m actually surprised with some of the answers. Just think about what Treliving was trying to do here. He believed in his 50 win roster so much that he basically brought everyone and replaced a 115 point player with another 115 player and signed him up for 8 years. The team looked extremely deep down the middle, more so than they ever did and on paper, the team looked poised to win 50 games again.

That is until reality hit. The goaltending was atrocious and Huberdeau set a record for the biggest drop in production from year to year. It’s probably fair to say that if Hubderdeau was even a 60+ point player, the Flames would’ve been a playoff team and if he was an 80-90 point player, who knows where the Flames could’ve been.

He’s obviously not the only reason for the team’s struggles. But based on expectations, he’s probably the biggest reason why the team likely has to retool/rebuild. I mean if Huberdeau was magically replaced by a comparable winger like a Pastrnak or a Panarin, would we really be talking about rebuilding?

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I think you have to look at the totality of the season. As a first pairing for example, Weegar and Rasmus are having issues.

Kadri good now but was a disaster at the start of the year. Lindholm too.
.

Is Lindholm good now? I must have missed it. I know he is on a good contract but based on expectation of the team’s number 1 center and top goal scorer, he has been a huge disappointment for 2 years now.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Agreed. I’m actually surprised with some of the answers. Just think about what Treliving was trying to do here. He believed in his 50 win roster so much that he basically brought everyone and replaced a 115 point player with another 115 player and signed him up for 8 years. The team looked extremely deep down the middle, more so than they ever did and on paper, the team looked poised to win 50 games again.

That is until reality hit. The goaltending was atrocious and Huberdeau set a record for the biggest drop in production from year to year. It’s probably fair to say that if Hubderdeau was even a 60+ point player, the Flames would’ve been a playoff team and if he was an 80-90 point player, who knows where the Flames could’ve been.

He’s obviously not the only reason for the team’s struggles. But based on expectations, he’s probably the biggest reason why the team likely has to retool/rebuild. I mean if Huberdeau was magically replaced by a comparable winger like a Pastrnak or a Panarin, would we really be talking about rebuilding?

It was a mistake not starting the rebuild sooner, but it was a risk worth taking at the time. Giving up that first for Monahan stings though.

[Philly06Cup]

What I think of when I watch Huberdeau.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Is Lindholm good now? I must have missed it. I know he is on a good contract but based on expectation of the team’s number 1 center and top goal scorer, he has been a huge disappointment for 2 years now.

You're full of it. Lindholm is a stud. He is the best 200ft player on the team.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

You're full of it. Lindholm is a stud. He is the best 200ft player on the team.

I think Backlund is the best 200 foot player. Contrary to popular belief, Lindholm is no a top defensive forward. He’s better than average but not in Backlund’s league.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I think Backlund is the best 200 foot player. Contrary to popular belief, Lindholm is no a top defensive forward. He’s better than average but not in Backlund’s league.

I agree Backlund is a very strong 200ft guy, but Lindholm pulls the tougher assignments no?

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

Fake Firefox quote:
Flames are pretty much getting their money’s worth out of most people right now, except Mangiapane, Dube, Markstrom, and glaringly, Huberdeau.



Agree on all but Markstrom, whom I think is earning his cheque right now. He's had issues, but has also won and played well at other times. Not much different than any goalie.

TBH even Mangiapane isn't as bad as most fans on CP would have you believe.

Among forwards At 5v5:

Points: 14 (3rd)
Goals: 4 (4th)
xGF: 54.4% (6th)
HDCF: 57.5% (3rd)

On pace for 42 points which isn't ideal but he's played limited second unit PP minutes and has 1 PP point...which really limits the upper end of his production. And really 42 points for $5.8M isn't the end of the world.

And he's also changed his style of play to fit with Lindholm and Sharangovich...went from being primary finisher with Backlund and Coleman to now being more of a playmaker with Lindholm and Sharangovich.

(Side note the NHL leader in PP points has 24 points...the Flames as a team have 11 PP goals, and Lindholm leads with 4 points).

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

TBH even Mangiapane isn't as bad as most fans on CP would have you believe.

Among forwards At 5v5:

Points: 14 (3rd)
Goals: 4 (4th)
xGF: 54.4% (6th)
HDCF: 57.5% (3rd)

On pace for 42 points which isn't ideal but he's played limited second unit PP minutes and has 1 PP point...which really limits the upper end of his production. And really 42 points for $5.8M isn't the end of the world.

(Side note the NHL leader in PP points has 24 points...the Flames as a team have 11 PP goals, and Lindholm leads with 4 points).

I’ve really liked his skating the last few games actually. He’s not strong on the puck and he doesn’t convert many chances, but he seems to create his share of them.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Markstrom’s fine. And Mangiapane and Dube are not much overpaid in this market

Mangiapane and Dube don’t impact the game nearly enough for me to want to keep them around.

Mangiapane might have the worst balance of any regular NHLer I’ve ever watched.

Dube is a non factor most nights.

[PepsiFree]

Our anemic power play is definitely a lens worth evaluating our players through when we’re determining their actual value and how they’re playing.

Mangiapane, for example, has the 93rd highest salary in the NHL, and sits about at the same place for even strength points (tied for 87th). If the power play was rolling and he just wasn’t contributing to it, sure, that would be cause for concern, but he’s still producing at even strength in line with his salary.

Even if you put that aside, the salary commensurate with his total production is around that $4.5-5M mark, so it’s not far off.

I haven’t loved his game this year because it’s been a little softer and his actual goal scoring isn’t where it has been, but I disagree with anyone who says we aren’t getting our money’s worth or that he’s on an immovable contract. I think any team would be happy to have his EVP at that salary (with just one more point he’d be at career-best EVP pace) and would assume his production would increase on a better powerplay