[News] Flames claim AJ Greer off waivers from Boston

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

If picking up another Greer is as easy as you guys claim, why would any team give us a pick for him? (And even more so, Duehr)

It's pretty straightforward, IMO. About 100 guys are available for free on waivers at the start of every season, when almost all 32 teams think they're going to compete with their rosters on paper and very few guys are injured. Lots of supply, not much demand.

But at the deadline, when teams are in an arms race and looking for every potential advantage, they're more likely to give up picks for depth guys. Almost no one is available for free at that point in the season and a ton of guys will be dealing with injuries. Teams will inevitably have seen that their rosters don't look as good on the ice as they did on paper and will want to make changes. And if a team like Colorado catches wind that a team like Vegas is looking to strengthen its bottom six with a guy like Greer, it tracks that they'll want to make a similar addition to keep pace. Not much supply, lots more demand.

It's pretty easy to get a guy like Greer in October (or July, for that matter). It's much harder to get one in March.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

It's pretty straightforward, IMO. About 100 guys are available for free on waivers at the start of every season, when almost all 32 teams think they're going to compete with their rosters on paper and very few guys are injured. Lots of supply, not much demand.

But at the deadline, when teams are in an arms race and looking for every potential advantage, they're more likely to give up picks for depth guys. Almost no one is available for free at that point in the season and a ton of guys will be dealing with injuries. Teams will inevitably have seen that their rosters don't look as good on the ice as they did on paper and will want to make changes. And if a team like Colorado catches wind that a team like Vegas is looking to strengthen its bottom six with a guy like Greer, it tracks that they'll want to make a similar addition to keep pace. Not much supply, lots more demand.

It's pretty easy to get a guy like Greer in October (or July, for that matter). It's much harder to get one in March.

Tre is a perfect example. Bled picks for depth defencemen

[Strange Brew]

Weren’t Schlemko and Bartkowski waiver pickups that one year?

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Weren’t Schlemko and Bartkowski waiver pickups that one year?

Bartkowski was a PTO IIRC.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

It's pretty straightforward, IMO. About 100 guys are available for free on waivers at the start of every season, when almost all 32 teams think they're going to compete with their rosters on paper and very few guys are injured. Lots of supply, not much demand.

But at the deadline, when teams are in an arms race and looking for every potential advantage, they're more likely to give up picks for depth guys. Almost no one is available for free at that point in the season and a ton of guys will be dealing with injuries. Teams will inevitably have seen that their rosters don't look as good on the ice as they did on paper and will want to make changes. And if a team like Colorado catches wind that a team like Vegas is looking to strengthen its bottom six with a guy like Greer, it tracks that they'll want to make a similar addition to keep pace. Not much supply, lots more demand.

It's pretty easy to get a guy like Greer in October (or July, for that matter). It's much harder to get one in March.

The pick argument is fine - he is worth a pick.

It's the other side that doesn't hold water. There are not 'about 100 guys' of Greer's quality. If there were, this thread wouldn't even exist, because he would be the same as all the other useless no names that we pick from that pile of about 100 every year.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

The pick argument is fine - he is worth a pick.

It's the other side that doesn't hold water. There are not 'about 100 guys' of Greer's quality. If there were, this thread wouldn't even exist, because he would be the same as all the other useless no names that we pick from that pile of about 100 every year.

Yeah I'd put Grier in the top 20% of fourth liners when you consider size, speed, intangibles and his pay day.

[TheScorpion]

I don't mean there are 100 guys exactly like Greer available, I just mean it's sort of a crapshoot at the start of every season with all those guys on waivers.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

I don't know if there are 100 Greers, but I do think there might be 100 Huberdeaus

Oh and also Edmonton has 100 Giordanos.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I don't mean there are 100 guys exactly like Greer available, I just mean it's sort of a crapshoot at the start of every season with all those guys on waivers.

Yes it's a crapshoot, and one that usually ends up at 00

Which brings us back to the point of the conversation which is: trading Greer is not as free and easy as some are suggesting, because replacing him is actually very difficult.

He is worth more than his contract cost.

[bigrangy]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Yes it's a crapshoot, and one that usually ends up at 00

Which brings us back to the point of the conversation which is: trading Greer is not as free and easy as some are suggesting, because replacing him is actually very difficult.

He is worth more than his contract cost.

But Greer is also worth less to a team that isn’t trying to win than a team that is. This value should ideally be exploited. If you replace Greer with Rooney does it make a difference in the Flames achieving their objectives for this year? Next year? The year after?

If the Flames were going to make the playoff and attempt to do some damage, or looked like they’d be a contending team in the near future, then yeah keep him around.

Move him now, take a shot on another Greer on next year’s waiver wire or heck even just sign him in the summer.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by bigrangy

But Greer is also worth less to a team that isn’t trying to win than a team that is. This value should ideally be exploited. If you replace Greer with Rooney does it make a difference in the Flames achieving their objectives for this year? Next year? The year after?

If the Flames were going to make the playoff and attempt to do some damage, or looked like they’d be a contending team in the near future, then yeah keep him around.

Move him now, take a shot on another Greer on next year’s waiver wire or heck even just sign him in the summer.

Disagree. Greer gives 100% every shift - exactly the kind of vet (like Coleman) that you want, showing the kids how to be good pros. That's worth more than a late pick.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Disagree. Greer gives 100% every shift - exactly the kind of vet (like Coleman) that you want, showing the kids how to be good pros. That's worth more than a late pick.

Disagree. I get that it's nice to have vets around that set a good example, but I'd rather have the picks, and so should the org. And it's just not the one late round pick you might get for a player like Greer. It's an abundance of picks. The more picks you have, the more eventual NHLers you will end up getting from those picks. They are the lifeblood of a successful organization.

In 3-4 years Greer will probably not even be in the NHL anymore, but that pick might be a Dustin Wolf, Andrew Mangiapane or Johnny Gaudreau, etc. And the more picks you have each year, the better chance of hitting on players like that.

[Enoch Root]

Trade the whole team for picks!

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Trade the whole team for picks!

Nope.

Just the pieces that have value and won't be here when you've rebuilt.

Need an abundance of picks.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Nope.

Just the pieces that have value and won't be here when you've rebuilt.

Need an abundance of picks.

Enoch has a point though. Yes, you need a bunch of picks, but you also need a leadership group, a winning culture and veterans to show the way.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Trade the whole team for picks!

Arizona and their 10 2nd, and 7 3rd round picks in the next 3 years will be a good case study.

[Sandman]

I agree that 4th liners are a dime a dozen, but I also think that Greer is a very exceptional 4th liner. You can’t always find players his size who can do a bit of everything- skate, hit, fight, and score the odd goal. I think he could even play up the lineup a bit in a pinch. His work ethic and GAF are exemplary for younger players.

The main reason he was turfed in Boston was the emergence of Johnny Beecher in camp, who gets some extra consideration, given that he’s a first round pick.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Trade the whole team for picks!

careful, you might have another 70s Habs dynasty of you do that

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

careful, you might have another 70s Habs dynasty of you do that

Sure, if it ever gets to be the 70s again. All you need are a bunch of desperate expansion teams with GMs who desperately need warm bodies to fill out an NHL roster, and are willing to trade unprotected 1st-round picks like candy with no conception of what they're actually worth.

Easy peasy, really. I don't know why every team doesn't do this.

[SaskyFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by Locke

Enoch has a point though. Yes, you need a bunch of picks, but you also need a leadership group, a winning culture and veterans to show the way.

Exactly, otherwise you become the Oilers