Owen Hargreaves to Man-U

[Claeren]

Calgary's own Owen Hargreaves is apparently now making the move from Bayern Munich over to Manchester United in a ~$35M deal.

Wow! May not be big news in Canada but it is one of the major world headlines today...



I put it here because it is as much a human interest story as it is about the sport itself... Calgary-boy makes good!!




Claeren.

[ricoFlame]

oh well. i'm sure he'll do well in manchester. anyways, GO MILAN ON WEDNESDAY!

[Thunderball]

I'm happy for him, he's looking like he could be a premier defensive midfielder.

Manchester will be a good place for him. One less big team shopping for a good DM means a better chance of Juventus snagging someone like Sissoko, Mascherano, Diarra or Mavuba.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by fotze

He has his own column here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/6655951.stm

In there, he mentions his admiration for Cristiano Ronaldo. Well that sure knocks him down a few in my books.

[troutman]

I disowned him when he went to play for England.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by troutman

I disowned him when he went to play for England.

Can you actually blame him?? Seriously.

If I'm an Italian born hockey sensation, am I going to play with Muzzatti and company, or am I going to get in with Canada if I have the chance?

Conversely, if I'm a Canadian born soccer sensation, and I have the chance to play with a team that can actually win games, am I going to languish with Canada, and likely be overlooked by big clubs, just so Canadians are happy? Absolutely not.

He's far from my favorite player, but I don't think less of either Hargreaves or Giuseppe Rossi (American born Italian player) for doing what they did. They have a responsibility to do what's best for themselves and their careers. Playing for Canada means a ticket to the mid-table English clubs, and a plane ticket back to Toronto FC/ A-League in relative anonymity.

[ricoFlame]

Originally Posted by troutman

I disowned him when he went to play for England.

i'm with ya brother. mutiny.

[Roy Keane]

That's alot of money for a player with very limited ability. English clubs have a thing about paying over the top for English players. Hargreaves will end up playing right back for them anyway, Gary Neville is done and they have no one to take his place.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

Can you actually blame him?? Seriously.

yep, sure can.

Playing for your country is not about cashing in, or climbing the professional ladder. That's what club sports are for.

Owen Hargreaves could still be a star in Europe and come back home to do his duty every once in a while. With a few players of international quality leading the team, Canada could claw its way back into the World Cup (as well as help to inspire the next generation of kids). He'd have cash, fame...and that little thing called honor.

[browna]

Good for Owen. Being a family acquientance from way back in the mid 80's, I am sure he and the family are thrilled....a dream come true to play in England. His dad may have to swallow hard to be a Man U supporter, but...

A pretty good return for Bayern, who made hm the player he is today. $35 million after 10 years ago giving him some unknown 16yr old Canadian a general, basic tryout as more or less a favour?

As I've said here before, the CSA are run and have always been run by, a bunch of ego maniacis running on politics.

A German club half a contintent away spotted talent in him, where the CSA wouldn't take a look at you if your home province wasn't QC/ON or maybe BC. Being in the upper echelon of the talent pool myself back in the day, many many players of Owen's talent or more in this province at 16, 17, 18 were passed over in this country for basic U-17, U19 national tryout camps, simply based on the fact that Alberta had no pull in the CSA upper ranks.

Owen still got fortunate to stick with Bayern like he did, but once he was in their system, he was set to succeed.

Thus, I don't blame him one bit. I liken it to being born in the UK, but being good enough to play for Team Canada in hockey. The CSA came waddling up to the trough 3 or 4 years after Owen was in Bayern and was starting to make regular appearances in the top club, trying to play the national card. I don't think they could spell his name before that or know what club he played on here in Calgary.

Will be interesting to see how he gets treated/handles the increased spotlight of the UK press, as opposed to the mother hen mentality of a club like Bayern protects some of thier players, and the German press in general being a bit more respectful.

[sadora]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

Can you actually blame him?? Seriously.

If I'm an Italian born hockey sensation, am I going to play with Muzzatti and company, or am I going to get in with Canada if I have the chance?

Conversely, if I'm a Canadian born soccer sensation, and I have the chance to play with a team that can actually win games, am I going to languish with Canada, and likely be overlooked by big clubs, just so Canadians are happy? Absolutely not.

He's far from my favorite player, but I don't think less of either Hargreaves or Giuseppe Rossi (American born Italian player) for doing what they did. They have a responsibility to do what's best for themselves and their careers. Playing for Canada means a ticket to the mid-table English clubs, and a plane ticket back to Toronto FC/ A-League in relative anonymity.

I agree. Playing nationals with England was probably one of the best moves Owen made in his career. On the one hand you have the option of playing for a team that has a legitimate chance of competing and perhaps winning one of the most prestigious competitions in the world...and I don't even have to mention the other option because my mind would already be made up after reading the first one.
It's unfortunate that Canada is going to do much in the world of soccer in the forseeable future, at least the men's team. Everyone of us that has grown up playing soccer dreams of playing in the world cup, by making the decision he did he's already done that twice. Hopefully with the upcoming U19 World Cup we can see an even bigger interest grow towards the sport.

[Winsor_Pilates]

overpayed. He's not worth that much money and I wouldn't be surprised if he goes back to being and English (and now Man U) whipping boy soon.

Now that he's on United, I must officially hate him

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by Table 5

yep, sure can.

Playing for your country is not about cashing in, or climbing the professional ladder. That's what club sports are for.

Owen Hargreaves could still be a star in Europe and come back home to do his duty every once in a while. With a few players of international quality leading the team, Canada could claw its way back into the World Cup (as well as help to inspire the next generation of kids). He'd have cash, fame...and that little thing called honor.

No he couldn't.

My whole point is in pro soccer, you can't be a star in Europe while playing for a 94th place team. Big clubs won't and don't care to notice you. If they don't notice you, the best you can be is like Craig Forrest... a couple years with a decent midtable premiership club, and then off to obscurity.

Canada needs a program that works and churns out several Owen Hargreaves types consistently, not an individual player. Until they do that, these guys have every right to think of themselves, cause its not a Brett Hull case, where international play is just a thrill... its bread and butter for most pro soccer guys.

They shunned him young, he lost respect for Soccer Canada, and thought of his career first. I have a feeling Jonathan de Guzman will do so as well. Which is sad, but look at how we Canadians support soccer... pathetically. These guys owe us nothing in return for our dismal support and attention spans.

[sadora]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

Canada needs a program that works and churns out several Owen Hargreaves types consistently, not an individual player. Until they do that, these guys have every right to think of themselves, cause its not a Brett Hull case, where international play is just a thrill... its bread and butter for most pro soccer guys.

I think that Toronto getting a team in the MLS is a step in the right direction. Hopefully in a few years Canada will get more teams in this league, which has been getting better in the last few years with the inception of the CONCACAF Champion's Cup and the Superliga which combines competition with Mexico's first Division.

[Addick]

Originally Posted by sadora

I think that Toronto getting a team in the MLS is a step in the right direction. Hopefully in a few years Canada will get more teams in this league, which has been getting better in the last few years with the inception of the CONCACAF Champion's Cup and the Superliga which combines competition with Mexico's first Division.

I actually believe this is a step in the wrong direction and goes to show you the lack of knowledge on the part of the CSA. They are going about this thinking that somehow getting a professional team will help create a fan base and increase the country's ability to develop quality players. However, these two things, skilled players and a fan base, are prereqs for a professional league. What the CSA needs to do is, create a better development system and focus on creating amateur and development leagues rather than a professional league.

What I mean by a better development system is youth systems and minor leagues that focus on developing children's skill and abilities rather than winning games, why try to teach a kid the 4-3-3 formation when he can't even pass the bloody football? Development leagues will provide a place for talented older youth players to play and develop their skills further, think of the academy system and leagues for European clubs. Amateur leagues would be where players that aren't skilled enough to make the jump to Europe would stay and play. It would also provide a place for "late-bloomers' to further develop their game. These amateur teams would be local clubs that would have local support. Similar to how pretty much every top flight professional European league started, these leagues and clubs would mature and grow into professional leagues and clubs. As they grow so will their initial fan base...

In addition, I don’t expect the MLS to be around much longer. They are going down the same path the NASL travelled and they no longer have their wealthy father (Lamar Hunt) to bail them out…

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Addick

In addition, I don’t expect the MLS to be around much longer. They are going down the same path the NASL travelled and they no longer have their wealthy father (Lamar Hunt) to bail them out…

So, no return of the Calgary Boomers, and Gerd "Thunderfoot" Zimmerman?

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by Addick

I actually believe this is a step in the wrong direction and goes to show you the lack of knowledge on the part of the CSA. They are going about this thinking that somehow getting a professional team will help create a fan base and increase the country's ability to develop quality players. However, these two things, skilled players and a fan base, are prereqs for a professional league. What the CSA needs to do is, create a better development system and focus on creating amateur and development leagues rather than a professional league.

What I mean by a better development system is youth systems and minor leagues that focus on developing children's skill and abilities rather than winning games, why try to teach a kid the 4-3-3 formation when he can't even pass the bloody football? Development leagues will provide a place for talented older youth players to play and develop their skills further, think of the academy system and leagues for European clubs. Amateur leagues would be where players that aren't skilled enough to make the jump to Europe would stay and play. It would also provide a place for "late-bloomers' to further develop their game. These amateur teams would be local clubs that would have local support. Similar to how pretty much every top flight professional European league started, these leagues and clubs would mature and grow into professional leagues and clubs. As they grow so will their initial fan base...

In addition, I don’t expect the MLS to be around much longer. They are going down the same path the NASL travelled and they no longer have their wealthy father (Lamar Hunt) to bail them out…

Actually, I'd say the opposite is true. The MLS is rather strong (and ranks amongst the NHL in the US in viewership), due to its strong ownership base. (The league owns the franchises essentially, to ensure no fly-by-night ownership). Instead of Lamar Hunt, they have the likes of Adidas, Gillette, Coca-Cola and others keeping them afloat.

Toronto FC is a step in the right direction, but a very small one. The huge advantage is when I turn on the TV, I see soccer... and actually, pretty decent soccer. For MLS to actually be a boon to Canadian soccer (as well as American soccer, since the two are very intertwined), the MLS will someday have to be a 20-24 team league, with at least 4 Canadian franchises (BC, AB, ON, QC... I don't care if Calgary and Edmonton have to share a team), luring aging superstars like Beckham and Shevchenko, and cultivating young North American talent with deeply rooted community involvement in youth development. This is a 10-20 year plan obviously, but that is what must happen. A-League and AMSL won't cut it. Too much talent slips through the cracks, and what doesn't will resent the CSA and go elsewhere. Canada needs the MLS brand name, cause its big enough to seem legitimate, and get people watching and buying into pro soccer.

Left to its own devices, the CSA will languish, and being a 50th place team or lower will be the best case scenario, and talented youth like Hargreaves and De Guzman will always opt to do the right thing for their careers and play for a different country. Holger Osieck resigned because of the CSA's stupidity and refusal to act.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Table 5

yep, sure can.

Playing for your country is not about cashing in, or climbing the professional ladder. That's what club sports are for.

Owen Hargreaves could still be a star in Europe and come back home to do his duty every once in a while. With a few players of international quality leading the team, Canada could claw its way back into the World Cup (as well as help to inspire the next generation of kids). He'd have cash, fame...and that little thing called honor.

Team Canada turned him down on no less than three seperate occasions. I'd go and play elsewhere too. Especially if it was a better team and they asked me to come play, as opposed to being turned down by worse team that I took the time to try out for several times. Soccer Canada is a joke, if you didnt play for the right team, under the right coach and go to the right camps then they want nothing to do with you.

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

overpayed. He's not worth that much money and I wouldn't be surprised if he goes back to being and English (and now Man U) whipping boy soon.

Now that he's on United, I must officially hate him

Agreed. I'm not a Hargreaves fan, nor am I a Man U. fan (Liverpool all the way! ). Bayern knew which team would be signing the cheque. When was the last time Man U. bought a 'cheap' player? They dont have to anymore, they have the cash. He's also not exactly the greatest either, look for him to be dropped from the starting line midway thorugh next season.

Locke.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

I'm both a Hargraves and Man U fan, so I'm a fan of Hargraves on Man U.

That said, what about Lennox Lewis? Is he British as he claims, or Canadian the country he represented at the Olympics? What about Donovan Bailey? Ben Johnson? Even Robyn Regher and Owen Nolan?

Brett Hull playing for the USA, right or wrong?

The thing is if Canada turned him down on several occasions (I can't imagine why, then again the Canadian Hockey Association said no to Brett Hull . . . as did the Calgary Flames actually) then why not go elsewhere?

Frankly I had fun cheering for a Canadian at the World Cup, and was proud. I also correctly predicted that Hargraves would score ON Canada Day.

Hopefully we'll see Canada back at the World Cup, and I'll cheer for them when they do. Until that time I'm backing Hargraves.


On the other argument going on, if Craig Forrest can almost singlehandedly win the Gold Cup in 2000 for Canada, how come he never played for a better club team than I believe Sheifield Wednesday? Byron Munich, and Manchester United are *slightly* more high profile, and pay *slightly* better than a bottom teir Premiership team.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

On the other argument going on, if Craig Forrest can almost singlehandedly win the Gold Cup in 2000 for Canada, how come he never played for a better club team than I believe Sheifield Wednesday? Byron Munich, and Manchester United are *slightly* more high profile, and pay *slightly* better than a bottom teir Premiership team.

I believe Forrest "peaked" with a loan to Chelsea (when they were a lousy club) and a long career with West Ham United (a mid table club).

How about the next two best players in the Gold Cup team, Stalteri and DeVos, the captain.

Stalteri played with Werder Bremen, who are now a top 4 German team, but weren't when he was a starter, and when they did win the Bundesliga and achieve UEFA cup standing, he was sipping gatorade on the bench. He's now a sub at Tottenham Hotspur... yes, a decent club, but he's a benchwarmer... the best defensive winger Canada has (though a defender at the club level), and he's a benchwarmer. He's expected to move to Toronto FC this summer where he will likely do very well.

DeVos, Canada's captain and concensus #1 defender has an even worse resume. He peaked on a midtable Scottish club, and boasts a couple seasons with relegation battlers, Wigan Athletic. You'll now find him playing out his days at second division Ipswich Town.

None of those teams are renowned for paying top wage for their players. Werder Bremen only pays a handful of players top wage to keep the top clubs from pillaging... Klose, Frings and Diego... and they are all play, or have played for top ranked national teams (Brazil and Germany)