What to do with Huberdeau?

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Yeah the sign was there. It’s crazy that they didn’t want their leading scorer in his prime back.

If Tkachuk didn’t force his way to a select handful of teams then Huberdeau would be a Panther still.

[AFireInside]

Originally Posted by kukkudo

The question is, if you removed a 10M+ player from a team in the NHL, would they struggle? Let's see

Avs without MacKinnon - Struggle bigtime
Bruins without Pastrnak - Struggle bigtime
Panthers without Barkov - Struggle bigtime
Oilers without Mcdavid - We know the answer
Flames without Huberdeau - They would be fine imo

Huberdeau is paid to put up points period!

Huberdeau is paid to be a playmaker with no one to make plays to.

Would you trade Backlund and Coleman for :

Fla - Reinhart/Rodrigues
Boston - Marchand/Zacha
Col - Nichushkin/Raantanen
Edm -Draisatl/anyone else

The answer is yes, I wouldn't have to think about any of those trades, that's really telling (I really like both Backlund and Coleman).

The huge difference here is that there is a complimentary player on each of those lines. Could a guy like Coleman fit in on a line with Reinhart and Barkov, or Marchand and Pastrnak, sure. But there is another talented scorer on all those lines, if not 2.

Barkov - Reinhart has 17 goals already this year, he's been over 30 goals twice, and over 20 goals 7 times in his career. Huberdeau would have more points playing with a guy like that. Reinhart has significantly more goals and points than Barkov. Reinhart is making the 10 million dollar player better this year.

Mackinnon - If you put Huberdeau in Colorado with Nichushkin and Rantanen do you think he gets more points? I certainly do, as many as Mackinnon, no, but he'd be FAR better.

Pastrnak - More than half of Pastrnaks points have come on the PP, 20 of his 39 points. He's spent much of this season playing with Brad Marchand, and having a guy like McAvoy on the point.

McDavid - McDavid is McDavid, and gets to play with Draisatl when they need it.

You're comparing good teams with talent (not the oilers ) , to the Flames who are lacking in that department. Is it the system? Is it the talent? It's both, part of the reason our system lacks creativity is because we don't have the players to play that way. If Mangiapane was on a 30 goal pace, Lindholm was on a 40 and Dube was pushing for 20 maybe it'd be a different story.

Put Mangiapane back with Backlund and Coleman, put Huberdeau with Sharangovich, Zary, someone. Doesn't matter.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Bonded

If Tkachuk didn’t force his way to a select handful of teams then Huberdeau would be a Panther still.

I doubt it. Panthers had no interest in extending Huberdeau.

[AFireInside]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

I doubt it. Panthers had no interest in extending Huberdeau.

I don't think that's true. His contract wasn't up. Maybe they wouldn't extend him, maybe they would have traded him at the deadline if they were going to miss the playoffs. We'll never know, it's silly to suggest they had no interest in re-signing him.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by AFireInside

Huberdeau is paid to be a playmaker with no one to make plays to.

Would you trade Backlund and Coleman for :

Fla - Reinhart/Rodrigues
Boston - Marchand/Zacha
Col - Nichushkin/Raantanen
Edm -Draisatl/anyone else

The answer is yes, and that's really telling.

The huge difference here is that there is a complimentary player on each of those lines. Could a guy like Coleman fit in on a line with Reinhart and Barkov, or Marchand and Pastrnak, sure. But there is another talented scorer on all those lines, if not 2.

Barkov - Reinhart has 17 goals already this year, he's been over 30 goals twice, and over 20 goals 7 times in his career. Huberdeau would have more points playing with a guy like that. Reinhart has significantly more goals and points than Barkov. Reinhart is making the 10 million dollar player better this year.

Mackinnon - If you put Huberdeau in Colorado with Nichushkin and Rantanen do you think he gets more points? I certainly do, as many as Mackinnon, no, but he'd be FAR better.

Pastrnak - More than half of Pastrnaks points have come on the PP, 20 of his 39 points. He's spent much of this season playing with Brad Marchand, and having a guy like McAvoy on the point.

McDavid - McDavid is McDavid, and gets to play with Draisatl when they need it.

You're comparing good teams with talent (not the oilers ) , to the Flames who are lacking in that department. Is it the system? Is it the talent? It's both, part of the reason our system lacks creativity is because we don't have the players to play that way. If Mangiapane was on a 30 goal pace, Lindholm was on a 40 and Dube was pushing for 20 maybe it'd be a different story.

Put Mangiapane back with Backlund and Coleman, put Huberdeau with Sharangovich, Zary, someone. Doesn't matter.

Toffoli scored a career amount last year.

Lindholm got 40 playing with a play maker. If Hubby was such a great playmaker, why can’t he play well with Lindholm?

[AFireInside]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Toffoli scored a career amount last year.

Lindholm got 40 playing with a play maker. If Hubby was such a great playmaker, why can’t he play well with Lindholm?

You don't think having Lindholm with Gaudreau AND Tkachuk had something to do with it? Do you think Lindholm gets 40 playing with one of those guys and Coleman? Not a chance. He'd be lucky to get 25. Like the rest of the comparisons in that post, it's bad.

He played on the wrong wing with Lindholm and Toffoli for a few games last year and they actually looked alright.

Toffoli is a goal scorer, he had 28 in 52 games a few seasons ago, on pace for more than he scored last year. He's also had seasons where he didn't hit 20 goals. Must be because he's bad at hockey, or maybe those teams he was on during those seasons were bad. Kind of like the Flames.

[FlamesAddiction]

I think the point is that Huberdeau has had his opportunity to play with players in Calgary that had an equal or greater history of scoring than that of the players he routinely played with in Florida. And nothing works. He is playing with Backlund and Coleman right now not because they expect Huberdeau to make them 30 goal scorers, but because it's the only place he hasn't been a liability most of the time.

There is nothing so special about Duclair, Bennett, Wennberg, or Hornqvist that not having them prevents Huberdeau from being productive with players like Lindholm, Kadri, Mangiapane, Toffoli, Backlund, or Coleman.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by AFireInside

You don't think having Lindholm with Gaudreau AND Tkachuk had something to do with it? Do you think Lindholm gets 40 playing with one of those guys and Coleman? Not a chance. He'd be lucky to get 25. Like the rest of the comparisons in that post, it's bad.

He played on the wrong wing with Lindholm and Toffoli for a few games last year and they actually looked alright.

Toffoli is a goal scorer, he had 28 in 52 games a few seasons ago, on pace for more than he scored last year. He's also had seasons where he didn't hit 20 goals. Must be because he's bad at hockey, or maybe those teams he was on during those seasons were bad. Kind of like the Flames.

What about Monahan and Gaudreau. Lindholm also had a good year with Toffoli.

I do think chemistry is a big part of the struggles, but Huberdeau is not elite if he can't produce with guys like Lindholm and Toffoli and at least produce on the PP.

Once Lindholm moves, we will see what options we have for Huberdeau. Hopefully someone clicks with him, or we draft a young star to play with him.

If Kadri keeps playing well and we sell at the deadline he might be willing to waive his no trade. If we are looking at fixing 1 of our 2 biggest issues it might be more realistic, we trade Kadri. He is nearly a PPG in the playoffs for his career and with the cap going up, can we get out of one of the bad contracts?

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by AFireInside

He played on the wrong wing with Lindholm and Toffoli for a few games last year and they actually looked alright.

Huberdeau played on his off-wing most of the time when he had his career year with Bennett an Duclair.

[kukkudo]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

That's not the question at all.

We all know what he's paid and we can all see his point production. What exactly is your point - just to complain without talking solutions?

Trade him, another Neal for Lucic type deal at this point.

[monkeyman]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

I doubt it. Panthers had no interest in extending Huberdeau.

And if they did, it'd be nowhere near $10.5 or 8 years.
I was pretty high on JH to be honest, I'm still hoping he can turn it around, but that contract will forever be an albatross.

[Spurs]

Sorry if it has been addressed already in this thread but is there a point that the Hubredeau apologists will say ok there is a concern that isn't all about linemates?

I think it has clearly been more than enough time but I obviously for some they want to give it more time. If at the end of the year he is still on the same pace meaning two full seasons have gone is that enough time to question him? 3 years? 4?

or is it that unless he has linemates that can carry the load offensively to help him put up big numbers then he can never be blamed?

it seems insane to me that a 10.5 million dollar player isn't able to improve linemates and in fact needs his linemates to improve him. Makes no sense and yet we still have people defending him and making excuses.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

I doubt it. Panthers had no interest in extending Huberdeau.

I doubt it. Panthers wanted to extend Huberdeau until Tkachuk was made available

[AFireInside]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I think the point is that Huberdeau has had his opportunity to play with players in Calgary that had an equal or greater history of scoring than that of the players he routinely played with in Florida. And nothing works. He is playing with Backlund and Coleman right now not because they expect Huberdeau to make them 30 goal scorers, but because it's the only place he hasn't been a liability most of the time.

There is nothing so special about Duclair, Bennett, Wennberg, or Hornqvist that not having them prevents Huberdeau from being productive with players like Lindholm, Kadri, Mangiapane, Toffoli, Backlund, or Coleman.

There's nothing special about them except they found players that worked. Would you care if Duehr and Ruzicka worked really well with Huberdeau?

Huberdeau made all those players better because it was the right mix. Kadri didn't work with anyone until Zary came up. Why does everyone think that Kadri was great? He was arguably our worst player most of last year. He got the right line mates, that no one expected and all of sudden it's a great line.

Mangiapane hasn't worked with anyone other than Backlund. Lindholm hasn't been great since his two linemates left. Dube doesn't work with anyone.

People are asking for ridiculous results from a playmaker playing with 2 guys who average about 15 goals/season.

[memphusk]

Asking for a 10.5 million dollar forward to hit 80 points a season is ridiculous?

[Always Earned Never Given]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Huberdeau played on his off-wing most of the time when he had his career year with Bennett an Duclair.

False

[AFireInside]

Originally Posted by memphusk

Asking for a 10.5 million dollar forward to hit 80 points a season is ridiculous?

When you pair him with Backlund, Coleman, Lucic it is.

Originally Posted by Spurs

Sorry if it has been addressed already in this thread but is there a point that the Hubredeau apologists will say ok there is a concern that isn't all about linemates?

it seems insane to me that a 10.5 million dollar player isn't able to improve linemates and in fact needs his linemates to improve him. Makes no sense and yet we still have people defending him and making excuses.

I don't see anyone being an apologist. Fans are being unreasonable. He made Bennett, Duclair etc all better players. Those players also fit well with him for whatever reason, and the system that team played worked better. I think every single person in this thread has said repeatedly that he needs to be better.

There were examples of Mackinnon, Pastrnak, McDavid, and Barkov. In all those cases their linemates are FAR better offensively than Huberdeaus linemates. All those linemates are being elevated a bit, but they are also better players.

I think you can expect an improvement in the linemates, but playing Huberdeau with two 15 - 20 goal guys isn't going to add up to 80-90 pts with the worst pp in the league on top of it.

[memphusk]

Originally Posted by AFireInside

When you pair him with Backlund, Coleman, Lucic it is.





I don't see anyone being an apologist. Fans are being unreasonable. He made Bennett, Duclair etc all better players. Those players also fit well with him for whatever reason, and the system that team played worked better. I think every single person in this thread has said repeatedly that he needs to be better.

There were examples of Mackinnon, Pastrnak, McDavid, and Barkov. In all those cases their linemates are FAR better offensively than Huberdeaus linemates. All those linemates are being elevated a bit, but they are also better players.

I think you can expect an improvement in the linemates, but playing Huberdeau with two 15 - 20 goal guys isn't going to add up to 80-90 pts with the worst pp in the league on top of it.

He plays with Coleman and Backlund because he's a liability. I actually feel bad for Coleman and Backlund.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

I doubt it. Panthers had no interest in extending Huberdeau.

Based on what?

It was July - they were 3 weeks into an entire year in which to get him signed.

This is wild revisionist history.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Bonded

I doubt it. Panthers wanted to extend Huberdeau until Tkachuk was made available

IIRC, Huberdeau said they never contacted him about an extension.

They simply traded him.