What to do with Huberdeau?

[AFireInside]

Originally Posted by Goriders

This is why I don’t think this setup is going to run the full course. Neither side is going to want to do this for 8 seasons. I think the Flames will eat some of his contract to move him out. Huberdeau won’t want to be a pariah for the better part of a decade.

I really don't see how this is that beneficial for the Flames though. The amount they'd need to retain, just to watch Huberdeau go and become a 90 pt player again somewhere else, would be too high.

This is just a really bad set up for him and the team. There's no player in the league that will turn Coleman/and Backlund into 30 goal players so it's weird that we expect it of Huberdeau.

Kadri wasn't good until he got the right linemates, now he seems like a different player, so why is Huberdeau different? Why not try Zary or Yegor with Huberdeau for a few periods. Zary is playing well with Kadri, maybe it'll be even better with Huberdeau, or maybe it will be worse, but it's not really a big deal to give it a try. Sharangovich seems like he's finding his game despite his linemates so I don't see any harm in trying him with Huberdeau either.

It would be very nice to see if it's truly a linemate issue with Huberdeau.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

The Flames brought in a centre for Iggy, firstly Conroy, secondly that guy from Finland who's name I want to forget. Neither was a first line centre, but Iggy produced anyway.

Tkachuk played in both systems and thrived.

Query why the Huberdeau Syndrome doesn't happen to anyone else?

Not done anything? They had him initially playing with Lindholm, then Kadri, two pretty skilled centreman.

They thought they were buying a Lamborghini, but got saddled with a lemon, and I believe the warranty just expired.

Tkachuk chose to go, and signed his extension as part of the deal being competed.

Huberdeau was told over the phone he was traded.

It’s the difference between finding out your wife is pregnant after several months of trying vs your girlfriend texting you she’s late.

One is significantly less jarring.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I don’t buy the notion that a half-dozen people in Flames management and scouting were all bad at their jobs. I expect they had a pretty good handle on what kind of player Huberdeau is and his limitations.

They didn’t sign Huberdeau because they believed he was something that he isn’t. They signed him because after the departures of Gaudreau and Tkachuk, the Flames were in jeopardy of being regarded as a train-wreck of a franchise. Media all over North America were asking what was wrong with Calgary and why nobody wanted to play there. Signing Huberdeau (who had just finished 3rd in league scoring) and Kadri (who was the biggest fish in the UFA pond that summer) was about changing the narrative that the Flames were a sad-sack, bottom-tier franchise.

Instead they get to be labelled as the city where NHL careers go to die

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by AFireInside

I'm just not sure what anyone is expecting. He's a playmaker playing with players who aren't really goal scorers. He makes multiple nice passes every game to guys who aren't shooters.

He makes bad plays too but if his linemates were finishing more often people would ignore those mistakes like they are currently doing with Kadri.

BS. He didn’t play with superstars in Florida. He should make his linemates better, not worse. A superstar who is only good with other superstars isn’t a superstar themselves. They’re a complimentary piece. And you don’t pay complimentary pieces $10.5m a season.

Not to mention those same players look fine when not with Huberdeau. It’s insane anyone would blame this on his linemates.

Even if we bought into this theory for a second, his linemates aren’t the worst in the league. But his contract sure is. Even with mediocre linemates he should still be way, way better than he is.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by AFireInside

I'm just not sure what anyone is expecting. He's a playmaker playing with players who aren't really goal scorers. He makes multiple nice passes every game to guys who aren't shooters.

He makes bad plays too but if his linemates were finishing more often people would ignore those mistakes like they are currently doing with Kadri.

Just a quick reminder that the worst seasons of his career were the 4 years he played with Jagr and Barkov (plus the season and a half here in YYC). The best seasons his career were the one season he played mostly with Norquist and Wennberg, and the one season he played entirely with Bennett and Duclair.

That's why he looks better here with Backlund and Coleman than he does with Lindholm/Kadri/Mangiapane/Sharkie/etc. He's a complimentary perimeter player. He needs to play with a puckhound and a cleanup guy. Someone who will take care of getting the puck away from the other team and crash their way to the net, and someone else who will take care of depositing rebounds and backchecking.

The problem is that it's better when the puckhound is the center (Bennett) and the clean up is on the far opposite wing (Duclair)... and it also didn't hurt that both Bennett and Duclair are substantial upgrades offensively over Backlund and Coleman.

[AFireInside]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

BS. He didn’t play with superstars in Florida. He should make his linemates better, not worse. A superstar who is only good with other superstars isn’t a superstar themselves. They’re a complimentary piece. And you don’t pay complimentary pieces $10.5m a season.

Not to mention those same players look fine when not with Huberdeau. It’s insane anyone would blame this on his linemates.

Even if we bought into this theory for a second, his linemates aren’t the worst in the league. But his contract sure is. Even with mediocre linemates he should still be way, way better than he is.

Who said he needs to play with superstars? The Flames have no superstars. As I said, doesn't matter who the player is. Playing on a line with Backlund and Coleman will only produce so much, doesn't matter who you put with them. If you put Draisatl on that line Coleman and Backlund are still really unlikely to hit 25 goals. If you're playing D against that line it's not going to be complicated.


No one can deny that getting Kadri the right linemates (neither of whom are superstars) completely changed his game, and how most fans see him. He's been great since getting matched up with better linemates for his game.



The Flames currently have nearly the worst pp in the league, 10 goals on 88 attempts I believe. This is going to be a big part of the equation for a player like Huberdeau as well. Our pp system is obviously terrible, neither unit produces.



I don't think Huberdeau has been good, I think people are really overreacting and just looking for everything he does wrong. Every game I see him make multiple nice plays for players to miss the net or shoot it into the goalies chest. Last game he made a great pass to Lindholm on the pp and promptly shot it over the net. They have to try something to get him going, because it's not going to happen with Backlund and Coleman. So it's new linemates, improve the PP or both.

[AFireInside]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Just a quick reminder that the worst seasons of his career were the 4 years he played with Jagr and Barkov (plus the season and a half here in YYC). The best seasons his career were the one season he played mostly with Norquist and Wennberg, and the one season he played entirely with Bennett and Duclair.

That's why he looks better here with Backlund and Coleman than he does with Lindholm/Kadri/Mangiapane/Sharkie/etc. He's a complimentary perimeter player. He needs to play with a puckhound and a cleanup guy. Someone who will take care of getting the puck away from the other team and crash their way to the net, and someone else who will take care of depositing rebounds and backchecking.

The problem is that it's better when the puckhound is the center (Bennett) and the clean up is on the far opposite wing (Duclair)... and it also didn't hurt that both Bennett and Duclair are substantial upgrades offensively over Backlund and Coleman.

Absolutely. This is exactly what I'm saying. Sharangovich has a good shot, so he's cleanup, and then you get a puck hound. Or maybe it's Zary and someone. It doesn't really matter. Putting him with Backlund and Coleman is going to be safe but won't produce the results people want and expeect. He needs to be better, but our team needs to try and find something that works.


It's not like any of our lines are lights out right now. The Kadri line has been our best, but Lindholm and Mangiapane haven't been lighting it up, so why not put Yegor with Huberdeau and try it out.

[Mindtravellee]

Originally Posted by AFireInside

Absolutely. This is exactly what I'm saying. Sharangovich has a good shot, so he's cleanup, and then you get a puck hound. Or maybe it's Zary and someone. It doesn't really matter. Putting him with Backlund and Coleman is going to be safe but won't produce the results people want and expeect. He needs to be better, but our team needs to try and find something that works.


It's not like any of our lines are lights out right now. The Kadri line has been our best, but Lindholm and Mangiapane haven't been lighting it up, so why not put Yegor with Huberdeau and try it out.

Swap the lines. Stick Mang, Lind and Coleman together as a defensive line and start Hub, Backs and Sharang. Worth seeing if Sharang and Hub have any chemistry

[Locke]

For $10.5M/year he should be dragging bums around and making them better. He cant even make a genuinely good player in Lindholm better.

All discussions are focused around: "What do we need to do to make Huberdeau better?

Uh...that ain't how this usually works. Huberdeau just needs to 'be better.'

If this is as good as Huberdeau gets? Well...then we've got big problems.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by AFireInside

I really don't see how this is that beneficial for the Flames though. The amount they'd need to retain, just to watch Huberdeau go and become a 90 pt player again somewhere else, would be too high.

This is just a really bad set up for him and the team. There's no player in the league that will turn Coleman/and Backlund into 30 goal players so it's weird that we expect it of Huberdeau.

Kadri wasn't good until he got the right linemates, now he seems like a different player, so why is Huberdeau different? Why not try Zary or Yegor with Huberdeau for a few periods. Zary is playing well with Kadri, maybe it'll be even better with Huberdeau, or maybe it will be worse, but it's not really a big deal to give it a try. Sharangovich seems like he's finding his game despite his linemates so I don't see any harm in trying him with Huberdeau either.

It would be very nice to see if it's truly a linemate issue with Huberdeau.

My 2 cents. He’s had a year and a quarter to adjust. He’s been on almost every line and every situation. At some point the onus has to be on him.

Zary and Sharangovich are playing great. Why risk messing that up?

I think I’d be done with the Huberdeau experiment and I’d be doing everything I could to find a way out of the situation. At some point the player has to start being held accountable. That’s a problem in the league due to guaranteed contracts. Huberdeau isn’t the only big contract dud. Johnny Hockey being another one.

Maybe the solution is a trade of duds?

[dirk diggler]

the fact that many posters here feel like the Flames haven't done enough or should be spending assets getting players in he has played well with before is so strange to me. I just have a hard time believing he aged so much overnight, he isn't an old player but sure plays like one. the idea of trading him for another dud might be the best solution going forward.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Locke

For $10.5M/year he should be dragging bums around and making them better. He cant even make a genuinely good player in Lindholm better.

All discussions are focused around: "What do we need to do to make Huberdeau better?

Uh...that ain't how this usually works. Huberdeau just needs to 'be better.'

If this is as good as Huberdeau gets? Well...then we've got big problems.

Great analysis. “Be better”. That should work for the whole team, right? They should win the cup every year. They just have to be better. They’ve just been holding back all along.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Goriders

My 2 cents. He’s had a year and a quarter to adjust. He’s been on almost every line and every situation. At some point the onus has to be on him.

Zary and Sharangovich are playing great. Why risk messing that up?

I think I’d be done with the Huberdeau experiment and I’d be doing everything I could to find a way out of the situation. At some point the player has to start being held accountable. That’s a problem in the league due to guaranteed contracts. Huberdeau isn’t the only big contract dud. Johnny Hockey being another one.

Maybe the solution is a trade of duds?

Oh man, we did like 50 pages discussing this trade that will never happen. I'd prefer if we don't do it again.

[FBI]

I’m holding out hope for Pelletier saving the Huberdeau situation. We get yet another awesome young player going and Huberdeau becomes productive again.

[kukkudo]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Great analysis. “Be better”. That should work for the whole team, right? They should win the cup every year. They just have to be better. They’ve just been holding back all along.

I don't know. At 10.5M, fans are expecting a player who can drive a line, a game-breaker, and a leader on the ice. Huberdeau can make 10.5 playing in a non-hockey market and be off the radar. In a Canadian market, you will get chewed up and spit out.

At 10.5M, fans should be expecting a minimum of a PPG player. The crazy part is Flames could remove him off the roster today and not miss a beat.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

So they gave $84MM to a player that they knew was flawed?

To what end?

If they really believed that they would’ve have traded for him or would have immediately flipped him.

Every player is flawed. Including the guy who Huberdeau was intended to replace (Gaudreau).

They traded for him because Huberdeau + Weegar + 1st was by far the best deal available out of the three viable partners that Tkachuk’s list left them with.

They signed Huberdeau to replace Gaudreau - knowing he has big holes in his game - because they were desperate to change the narrative of the Flames as a franchise in crisis that no stars would play for. That sort of stuff matters to owners and management teams.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by traptor

It was a panic move.

They didn't have time to fully assess Hubrrdeau as a fit. They saw the name, saw the numbers and that was that.

Nonsense. Every NHL team has a book in every player in the league. They aren’t just fans who watch the occasional highlight and look at stat lines. They know the players inside and out. I guarantee the Flames knew more about Huberdeau’s game than the most avid Flames fan on this board knows about Lindholm or Backlund.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Oh man, we did like 50 pages discussing this trade that will never happen. I'd prefer if we don't do it again.

The answer is pretty simple lol. You keep the dud with a 2 year shorter contract. If Huberdeau's contract was up at the same time as Gaudreau's then it wouldn't even matter. The extra two years is where you might start getting into issues

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Hackey

They made the trade in 4 days. They didn't properly assess the direction of the team moving forward, they didn't properly assess their trade options, and they didn't properly assess Huberdeau. Now their stuck with what might be the worst contract in the entire NHL.

Tkachuk gave them a list of five teams. The Stars and Avs were non-starters because they couldn’t fit a long-term $9mil+ contract in their cap structure. The Hurricanes offered a futures-based package. We don’t know what that was. But as Conroy has commented, the organization decided they didn’t want to go down the route of a rebuild.

That left the Blues and the Panthers. The Blues’ offer is rumoured to have been something like Tarasenko + Scandella + 1st.

The limitations imposed by Tkachuk + the organizational (ie ownership) decision not to rebuild, meant the choice was in reality between two offers. The Flames took what they considered (and every other team in the league would consider) the best of those two.

People are looking around for who to blame for this mess. But it’s a consequence of two American superstars not wanting to play in this city/country anymore, and an owner who didn’t want to rebuild when they left. Everything else flowed from there.

[Always Earned Never Given]

Last game was a perfect example of Huberdeau's tenure with the Flames so far in puck luck.

They score 4 and he has no points yet should have had 3 (Elite pass to Lindy alone in front of the net on 1st pp, incredible play keeping puck at the blue line setting up Rasmus who walked in all alone and shot high glove side, great backhand from the right boards to Backs who missed the tip and rebound)

On the other side Sharangovich shoots it at the goalie and it goes in. Zary throws one shoulder high, hits Kadri and goes in.

Also on that giveaway in the third by Huberdeau on the pp which is the only thing most haters remember. He was hooked and slashed by 2 Knights + where were the other 4 Flames players? Isn't it a man advantage?

And finally I have noticed a few touch passes by Zary, Pospisil and a few others so could it be that during practice they are picking up on some of the deceptive passes Jonathan is capable of producing?

I really wish him the best of luck cause he really seems like a nice guy.